Inferior Universal Healthcare in Canada may have killed Actress

I hope there are enough republicans with balls to kill any hearhcare mandate. It's based on lies, many millions who don't have it don't want it.
 
The sick fuck strikes again. Me, I'm not into necrophilia. Dano, on the other hand, likes to ride the dead in pursuit of his ideological objectives. Different strokes . . .
 
bravo said:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29733775/

At 3 p.m., a second 911 call was made — this time from Richardson’s luxury hotel room — as her condition deteriorated. An ambulance arrived nine minutes later.

“She was conscious and they could talk to her,” Coderre said. “But she showed instability.”

The medics tended to her for a half-hour before transporting her to a hospital a 40-minute drive away.
==================
The medics treating her for 30 minutes before transportation to a hospital seems a mistake too,,,in hindsight....
That 30 minutes could have made all the difference...
Click to expand...

How long after the injury were the medics called? I just checked the NLM site on this, as I recalled that a recent finding was able to determine an important window for treatment/recovery in case of hemorrhagic stroke (which is what this injury was). If the patient is seen and tended to within 60 minutes of the injury the prognosis is very good.

I did stroke research for just over a year. One of the important things I learned was that a bleed is progressive and can initiate the process of apoptosis (cell death) in the cells it surrounds. Once this process has begun, it is the necrosis, and not the initial bleed, that represents the real problem. The dying cells "recruit" the healthy, adjacent cells and the damage spreads because of the neurochemical components released by the cells' death. It is imperative to reach help/treatment before this process can begin.

We have no details on exactly where the injury was (and remember, if you hit your head it's the opposite side that suffers the most injury, not where you struck). Neither do we know the extent of the initial trauma. Unfortunately, the patient's consciousness was not necessarily a very good indicator of her condition.

It's pretty easy to speculate on a nonspecialized message board and point accusing fingers in all sorts of directions, but really we know very, very little about this case, and certainly not enough to condemn anyone involved.
 
Thorn said:
That's the really sad part of this, and the post that Sol made the other day partly explained that, I think.
Click to expand...

I didn't think anyone noticed that thread.

But I thought it spoke volumes about why she didn't seek medical care.
 
Thorn said:
How long after the injury were the medics called? I just checked the NLM site on this, as I recalled that a recent finding was able to determine an important window for treatment/recovery in case of hemorrhagic stroke (which is what this injury was). If the patient is seen and tended to within 60 minutes of the injury the prognosis is very good.

I did stroke research for just over a year. One of the important things I learned was that a bleed is progressive and can initiate the process of apoptosis (cell death) in the cells it surrounds. Once this process has begun, it is the necrosis, and not the initial bleed, that represents the real problem. The dying cells "recruit" the healthy, adjacent cells and the damage spreads because of the neurochemical components released by the cells' death. It is imperative to reach help/treatment before this process can begin.

We have no details on exactly where the injury was (and remember, if you hit your head it's the opposite side that suffers the most injury, not where you struck). Neither do we know the extent of the initial trauma. Unfortunately, the patient's consciousness was not necessarily a very good indicator of her condition.

It's pretty easy to speculate on a nonspecialized message board and point accusing fingers in all sorts of directions, but really we know very, very little about this case, and certainly not enough to condemn anyone involved.
Click to expand...

From a strictly first aid provider viewpoint, the fact that she refused medical care is a huge point.

But if the people responding to the 911 call were told she had suffered a head injury recently, and she was presenting symptoms consistent with that, she should have been transported with all the speed they could mucter.
 
I'm sure that Liam Neeson and the Richardson family will find some comfort, in their time of grief, knowing that as long as people on the internets can use the circumstances of her death as a political football, Natasha's untimely death has not been in vain.
 
Thorn said:
I didn't reply at the time because it made me cry.
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It struck me as a profound view of two tragedies.

I was kind of surprised it got no responses. I expected a few "You wimp!" ones, but thought it spoke to the maternal condition very clearly.

Where is Froggie? She would have jumped on that one too.
 
charver said:
I'm sure that Liam Neeson and the Richardson family will find some comfort, in their time of grief, knowing that as long as people on the internets can use the circumstances of her death as a political football, Natasha's untimely death has not been in vain.
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In a perverse twist of that sarcasm, I am sure that there will be many lives saved because of the publicity this has received.

Fewer people will ignore head injuries now, at least for a while.
 
charver said:
I'm sure that Liam Neeson and the Richardson family will find some comfort, in their time of grief, knowing that as long as people on the internets can use the circumstances of her death as a political football, Natasha's untimely death has not been in vain.
Click to expand...

Too right. As I mentioned, we know virtually nothing about this other than a lovely, vibrant woman has died most tragically and her family and friends must be thunderstruck.

I think that part of what underlies all the commentary is an attempt to distance themselves personally from the tragedy and to bolster their perception that it couldn't happen to them.
 
Thorn said:
Too right. As I mentioned, we know virtually nothing about this other than a lovely, vibrant woman has died most tragically and her family and friends must be thunderstruck.

I think that part of what underlies all the commentary is an attempt to distance themselves personally from the tragedy and to bolster their perception that it couldn't happen to them.
Click to expand...

???
We know lots about this, we know (at least by actually reading the article) that the US has greater access to CT scans, we know that helicopters are more often used in the US when someone complains of head trauma after an injury.
This is a physician who wrote the article, not someone looking to play political football.
Try and stick to actually debating his points on WHY the actress stood a better chance of surviving with the same circumstances in the US private healthcare system.
 
KingCondanomation said:
???
We know lots about this, we know (at least by actually reading the article) that the US has greater access to CT scans, we know that helicopters are more often used in the US when someone complains of head trauma after an injury.
This is a physician who wrote the article, not someone looking to play political football.
Try and stick to actually debating his points on WHY the actress stood a better chance of surviving with the same circumstances in the US private healthcare system.
Click to expand...

If she had agreed to medical attention at the time, she would not have died. That is the single biggest factor in this tragedy.

Now, a helicopter ride might have helped. But the paramedics worked on her for 30 minutes before they transported her. And they went a hospital that was 40 minutes away. That is an hour and 10 minutes. If the paramedics had realized that she had had a head injury and that this was probably the source of her problems, and they had transported immediately (and to a closer?) hospital, she might still be alive.


Or she might have died in her sleep that night.






The healthcare systems in Canada and the UK are NOT what we need. But this case is not the proof of that.

Find the case histories of people in the UK that were refused life-saving medicines because of the cost. Find case histories of people in either nation that died while waiting to see a Dr.
 
Solitary said:
If she had agreed to medical attention at the time, she would not have died. That is the single biggest factor in this tragedy.

Now, a helicopter ride might have helped. But the paramedics worked on her for 30 minutes before they transported her. And they went a hospital that was 40 minutes away. That is an hour and 10 minutes. If the paramedics had realized that she had had a head injury and that this was probably the source of her problems, and they had transported immediately (and to a closer?) hospital, she might still be alive.


Or she might have died in her sleep that night.






The healthcare systems in Canada and the UK are NOT what we need. But this case is not the proof of that.

Find the case histories of people in the UK that were refused life-saving medicines because of the cost. Find case histories of people in either nation that died while waiting to see a Dr.
Click to expand...
Actually the delay at the beginning is very common as patients have few symptoms (I mean I've hit my head and never thought to get treatment many times, probably you have too and she was on a very small beginners hill), her delay was only ONE hour, but she didn't arrive at a facility capable of treatment (with the diagnosis perhaps still unknown) until SIX hours after the injury.

CT scans are far more common in private healthcare in the US than universal healthcare Canada.
Honestly just read the whole article, it explains all this and very well, it's written by a physician.

The reason this case is mentioned is because it was someone famous, but it highlights the larger main problem of universal healthcare systems, wherein with no check on demand as it is free, combined with the usual inefficiency of government, you have longer wait times for just about any procedure, even emergency ones.

There was even a case in their (Québec) supreme court where they ruled that it was not acceptable that their universal healthcare system of denying people care by long wait times and that more private healthcare would be allowed.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1118315110253_28/?hub=TopStories
 
Thorn said:
How long after the injury were the medics called? I just checked the NLM site on this, as I recalled that a recent finding was able to determine an important window for treatment/recovery in case of hemorrhagic stroke (which is what this injury was). If the patient is seen and tended to within 60 minutes of the injury the prognosis is very good.

I did stroke research for just over a year. One of the important things I learned was that a bleed is progressive and can initiate the process of apoptosis (cell death) in the cells it surrounds. Once this process has begun, it is the necrosis, and not the initial bleed, that represents the real problem. The dying cells "recruit" the healthy, adjacent cells and the damage spreads because of the neurochemical components released by the cells' death. It is imperative to reach help/treatment before this process can begin.

We have no details on exactly where the injury was (and remember, if you hit your head it's the opposite side that suffers the most injury, not where you struck). Neither do we know the extent of the initial trauma. Unfortunately, the patient's consciousness was not necessarily a very good indicator of her condition.

It's pretty easy to speculate on a nonspecialized message board and point accusing fingers in all sorts of directions, but really we know very, very little about this case, and certainly not enough to condemn anyone involved.
Click to expand...

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Excellent post.
 
Solitary said:
From a strictly first aid provider viewpoint, the fact that she refused medical care is a huge point.

But if the people responding to the 911 call were told she had suffered a head injury recently, and she was presenting symptoms consistent with that, she should have been transported with all the speed they could mucter.
Click to expand...

How much authority do they have to do that against someone's will?

I missed your previous thread on this .. why did she refuse care?
 
charver said:
I'm sure that Liam Neeson and the Richardson family will find some comfort, in their time of grief, knowing that as long as people on the internets can use the circumstances of her death as a political football, Natasha's untimely death has not been in vain.
Click to expand...

Sad, no shame, no compassion, no sense of spirituality

Reaching for Terry Schiavo
 
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