Coercive Interrogations Worked

[DamnYankee]

Some parts of memo deleted

Admiral Blair’s assessment that the interrogation methods did produce important information was deleted from a condensed version of his memo released to the media last Thursday. Also deleted was a line in which he empathized with his predecessors who originally approved some of the harsh tactics after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

“I like to think I would not have approved those methods in the past,” he wrote, “but I do not fault those who made the decisions at that time, and I will absolutely defend those who carried out the interrogations within the orders they were given.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30335592/

Curious.

 

[Bonestorm]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30335592/

Curious.

The parts of the article that you omitted are also curious:

A spokeswoman for Admiral Blair said the lines were cut in the normal editing process of shortening an internal memo into a media statement emphasizing his concern that the public understand the context of the decisions made in the past and the fact that they followed legal orders.

"The information gained from these techniques was valuable in some instances, but there is no way of knowing whether the same information could have been obtained through other means,” Admiral Blair said in a written statement issued last night. “The bottom line is these techniques have hurt our image around the world, the damage they have done to our interests far outweighed whatever benefit they gave us and they are not essential to our national security."

 

[Canceled2]

this is a stupid question. It's like saying should u.s. soldiers be killed because they kill.

We already know what our enemies do to us, not because anyone ever comes home to talk about it, but because the terroist jihadist's put the beheading videos on the net!

 

[Canceled2]

War isn't about equality and fairness BAC it's about killing the other side and breaking things. If I am in a war I want the other side dead and I want my guys alive. So it's a stupid question for you to ask if I want us soldiers tortured. of course I don't.

But if your premise is, because we torture, the other side will torture us, I am not convinced by your single jessica lynch story that they wouldn't already be tortuing us.

But lets pretend we live in your fantasy world where no one at this time would torture our soldiers, but would if we started using torture, I still say yes we would need to torture in extreme circumstances.

These circumstances are defined by me as imminent disaster "ticking time bomb" scnearios in which millions of lives are at risk and we have a solid reason to suspect someone may have information to prevent such an occurance.

If it's about finding a piece of enemy artillery in the field or something of that nature, no I probably wouldn't support torture. Only extreme circumstances.

I do not believe torture in all circumstances is wrong.

Excellent!

 

[Canceled2]

Where I come from we call people who think like this "Yellow bellied cowards". Your position is not only rediculous. It's chicken shit cowardly and I won't condone it.

Where I come from we call people who talk like you assholes, but who's complaining?

Our president is charged with, as his number one priority, to keep American's safe. The enhanced interrogation techniques use never killed anyone, caused any physical damage, and as far as any one can ascertain, no permanent psychological damage. According to early reports the redacted information contained in the report supports the use of these techniques on specific terrorists, that prevented specific attacks, and helped locate and apprehend specific persons. I am not so mealy mouthed and arrogant to judge anything without all the facts, obviously you are.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

One would also tell the truth if they knew it.

This is how torture works:

You torture someone, they give you information. You then verify said information. If it comes back false, you determine if it is likely that your terror suspect was still lying while being jabbed by hot pokers. Usually that's not the case. Because as you said, you'll say anything while being tortured, including the truth.

O_O

*Goes to AIM, selects user "qedveritas", press "block")

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

would it be WRONG in that scenario mottleydude? Would you feel bad? Would you have done a morally wrong thing?

OF COURSE!!

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

There is a difference between having a carte blance torture policy and going after someone who is very likely to have information. For example, bin laden, or other high up commanders.



Yes it has, and it was use for that PURPOSE. Obviously I am not advocating that, I am advocating the use of torture in an extreme scenario to save lives, not to trump up charges.

Torture can obviously work in some circumstances. To deny this is to be intellectually dishonest.

I know you don't believe in silly things like human rights and common decency, Grind, but torture is also simply inneffective at procuring information. It's immoral and useless. To deny this is to be intellectually dishonest.

 

[NOVA]

I'll answer.

Intelligence would tell me that I couldn't trust anything said by someone who would kidnap my daughter .. and knowing that, I would pursue a more reliable method of saving her.

Would I kill him, absolutely I would. But torture is stupid and a waste of valuable time.

So....You would kill him, thats OK...

but you're against hurting or scaring him and let him live....thats immoral and against the law...

cool...

 

[Socrtease]

Here is my question. Grind has decided that it the extreme instance of stopping the detonation of a nuclear weapon it would be acceptable to torture one person to save thousands. So lets say that the person holding the trigger demands that you kill a child, with your bare hands, If you do this, they will tell you how to disarm the bomb. Forgetting all your "terrorists lie" arguments, we for the sake of this argument guarantee that the bomb will be disarmed, 10's of thousands of people will be saved, if you Grind, will, with your bare hands, strangle the life out of one child. Would you do it?

 

[uscitizen]

According to the new narrative, which compiles legal advice provided by the Bush administration to the CIA, Rice personally conveyed the administration's approval for waterboarding of Zubaydah, a so-called high-value detainee, to then-CIA Director George Tenet in July 2002.

Last fall, Rice acknowledged to the Senate Armed Services Committee only that she had attended meetings where the CIA interrogation request was discussed. She said she did not recall details. Rice omitted her direct role in approving the program in her written statement to the committee.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090423/D97NS8SG1.html

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Only if they torture others.

I mean that is only fair isn't it?

BAC the neocon types have forgotten why the Geneva convention rules were laid out.

But it only applies to SOLDIERS and not combatants.
Make sure you read all the articles and maybe you'll understand what the description of a soldier is.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

SHOULD AMERICAN SOLDIERS BE TORTURED?

You seem a little agitated!!

Try eating more fiber and maybe some bran flakes.

 

[BRUTALITOPS]

Here is my question. Grind has decided that it the extreme instance of stopping the detonation of a nuclear weapon it would be acceptable to torture one person to save thousands. So lets say that the person holding the trigger demands that you kill a child, with your bare hands, If you do this, they will tell you how to disarm the bomb. Forgetting all your "terrorists lie" arguments, we for the sake of this argument guarantee that the bomb will be disarmed, 10's of thousands of people will be saved, if you Grind, will, with your bare hands, strangle the life out of one child. Would you do it?

uhhh yes?

 

[BRUTALITOPS]

it's actually a really easy choice because if i didn't even more children would die? Ummmmmm yeah?

Like this is pretty much an insta decision.

Your analogy is dumb though because we aren't dealing with innocent children we are dealing with an enemy who actively wishes us harm and desires to kill as many americans as possible.

 

[BRUTALITOPS]

It's not a stupid question, it's a question you don't like because it exposes the absurdity of your position. If you condone the torture of others, you condone the torture of our troops AND civilians.

No... I do not. NO more so than though I support us killing the enemy, I do not support the enemy killing US. lol?

Should your mother be picked up and tortured? According to your position, of course she should if someone needed information they think she has.

Now I don't know what your angle is here. I know you are smart enough to understand arguments, so I'm not sure why you are suggesting this when I thought I was pretty clear and went out of my way to say I support it being used in extreme circumstances, not on every salam, sheik and shiri.

but according to you, they all should be tortured.

Same as above. I did not say this, nor suggest it. Do not misrepresent my argument.

You've been watching too much "24." It doesn't happen like that in the real world and there is no Jack Bauer.

Who says? Why is it so hard to believe that they could fertilizer bomb the shit out of grand central? Or infect themselves with ebola and go to times square during new years and blow themselves up? It's entirely possible.

You mean like "Where is the WMD?" .. which didn't produce WMD only the loss of countless innocent life and the end of the American Century.

Hi yeah, I'm not into illiciting false confessions. With torture you sometimes get a false confession so they make the pain stop, then you simply fact check. It's not that hard. The bush administration ignored a lot of facts, that doesn't really have much to do with torture as it does with the fact that they may have had blinders on.

Most people wont lie when being tortured, especially if they know that by telling the truth they can make all the pain go away.

Torture CAN work and it's ignorant to assume otherwise. It can be effective.

 

[Socrtease]

it's actually a really easy choice because if i didn't even more children would die? Ummmmmm yeah?

Like this is pretty much an insta decision.

Your analogy is dumb though because we aren't dealing with innocent children we are dealing with an enemy who actively wishes us harm and desires to kill as many americans as possible.

It doesn't matter torture and murder are both moral equals. How many people less would have to be saved before you wouldn't do it. Lets say two men have your kid and one of them tells you kill the child with your bare hands or watch your child suffer and die. Would you do it then?

 

[Bonestorm]

it's actually a really easy choice because if i didn't even more children would die? Ummmmmm yeah?

Like this is pretty much an insta decision.

Your analogy is dumb though because we aren't dealing with innocent children we are dealing with an enemy who actively wishes us harm and desires to kill as many americans as possible.

I think it's pretty funny that you are complaining about dumb analogies while at the same time concocting dumbass ticking time bomb scenarios.

 

[Socrtease]

I think it's pretty funny that you are complaining about dumb analogies while at the same time concocting dumbass ticking time bomb scenarios.

Yeah but I decided to ignore that. There has NEVER been a ticking time bomb scenario, if there had been the Bush administration would have screamed it from the mountain tops.

 

[Bonestorm]

Yeah but I decided to ignore that. There has NEVER been a ticking time bomb scenario, if there had been the Bush administration would have screamed it from the mountain tops.

No shit. They waterboarded one guy 183 times in a single month. There was no ticking time bomb. And I'm not buying the idea that a torture technique that had to be utilized 183 times in a single month is "effective."

edit: And fuck it, if we want to use a ends-based justification for out torture why stop with waterboarding? I mean, surely there are other techniques that may be more effective. Let's bring back the Iron Maiden. Let's burn motherfuckers. Let's conduct mock executions. Let's rip off fingernails.