Obama Apology Tour

Southern Man said:
Again, deism assumes that whatever you do in life god doesn't care. It's only human nature that they'd be more apt to sin. *shrug*
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So Jefferson was more of a sinner because of his beliefs? And christians are so much better? You have obviously ignored the behavior of too many christians.

But for you to judge the validity of the statements based only on the religion of those making the statement does more to prove Damocles's statements than it does to prove your argument.

He has said "I don't know why it is so important to you that he be what you want him to be, but it is sad when you list speculation and "must have" from a close relative and then say that saying, "for God and Country" means he is Christian".


You are so desperate to have Washington be a devout christian that you will ignore any facts to the contrary and place all your faith on the "must have been" statements.

And it still does not put any more validity into the idea that this nation was formed as a christian nation. You made the comment "The fact is that Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, deists, atheists and other faiths should be damn glad that the US is a Christan nation and therefore has the tolerance for them.". That goes against the very ideas that were included in our Constitution.

Other religions do not need to be glad christians are tolerant (hard not to laugh) because their right to freely practice their religion was guaranteed by the founding fathers.
 
Southern Man said:
Again, deism assumes that whatever you do in life god doesn't care. It's only human nature that they'd be more apt to sin. *shrug*
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Deism does not promote harming others or lying. And the idea that people would do bad things if they are not threatened is a view not shared by deists and some other faiths as well.
 
Southern Man said:
You have clearly made a caricature by omitting this: "His life, his writings, prove that he was a Christian."
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Except they don't. Again, it concludes with "he must have been," because she wasn't positive. His writings do no such thing. He wrote a poem once that mentioned Jesus, when he was a teen and one other thing as an adult, certainly nothing that said he believed in Christ.

You have been wrong, and are still wrong to assume. There are better choices among the founders to pretend that we are a "Christian" nation than GW. There just isn't evidence that he was a Christian. It would be like pretending that Jefferson was after he wrote out all mention of Jesus as a Deity in the New Testament because he said, "I'm a better Christian than most of these people.. (Paraphrasing)" when talking about the Christians he was around.

One thing we can know from his life is he believed in God. First because he said so, secondly because he was a Freemason, and no Atheist can be a Freemason.
 
Southern Man said:
She was putting together an argument. *shrug*
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Yes, and concluded with that statement. When you put together an argument that you are sure of you conclude with a statement of certainty. By using an uncertain remark as the conclusion it shows that she was unsure of the conclusion, and that is somebody far closer than your 200 years apart. People have questions about it because there is no real evidence of it, you should face that and pick a different founder.
 
Damocles said:
Yes, and concluded with that statement. When you put together an argument that you are sure of you conclude with a statement of certainty. By using an uncertain remark as the conclusion it shows that she was unsure of the conclusion, and that is somebody far closer than your 200 years apart. People have questions about it because there is no real evidence of it, you should face that and pick a different founder.
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You are misrepresenting her argument. Again, this is the context of her statement: "She never omitted her private devotions, or her public duties; and she and her husband were so perfectly united and happy, that he must have been a Christian. She had no doubts, no fears for him. After forty years of devoted affection and uninterrupted happiness, she resigned him without a murmur into the arms of his Savior and his God, with the assured hope of his eternal felicity. Is it necessary that any one should certify, "General Washington avowed himself to me a believer in Christianity?" As well may we question his patriotism, his heroic, disinterested devotion to his country. His mottos were, "Deeds, not Words"; and, "For God and my Country.""
 
The revisionist pseudo-historians who are trying to paint the US as a Christian nation have been absolutely destroyed in this thread.
 
Southern Man said:
I never said it did. Nice straw man.
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"It's only human nature that they'd be more apt to sin" sure sounds as though you think they will do both.

But since you didn't say they would lie we have equal credibility between the two christians saying one thing and the numerous deists saying another.

But then his minister said he was a deists and didn't seem to have any doubts.
 
Southern Man said:
Big surprise.
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He expressed an opinion and I agreed with it. If someone had praised the the people on your side of the argument you would have done more than agree. You would have made demeaning comments about the opposition in the debate.
 
Southern Man said:
You are misrepresenting her argument. Again, this is the context of her statement: "She never omitted her private devotions, or her public duties; and she and her husband were so perfectly united and happy, that he must have been a Christian. She had no doubts, no fears for him. After forty years of devoted affection and uninterrupted happiness, she resigned him without a murmur into the arms of his Savior and his God, with the assured hope of his eternal felicity. Is it necessary that any one should certify, "General Washington avowed himself to me a believer in Christianity?" As well may we question his patriotism, his heroic, disinterested devotion to his country. His mottos were, "Deeds, not Words"; and, "For God and my Country.""
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You are misinterpreting her argument, throughout the text she makes statements of uncertainty, it has been pointed out to you myriad times yet you fallaciously stick to this one piece of poor evidence as it is all you have. There isn't evidence of what you say is certain, no matter how many times a relative made an uncertain statement about his religion and how he "must have been" because his wife didn't fear for his soul and he often said "for God and Country!" and went alone into a room to do something that she couldn't see, didn't participate in, and would allow no visitors to see, even if you can make excuses as to why he left services early in order to not participate in communion, or any other piece of evidence that points elsewhere. You should pick a more certain founder, there were many that were Christians.

This is not a model of a Founder you should be using to "prove" that we are a "Christian Nation" because there is no solid evidence that the man was a Christian.

"He must have been" is an uncertain statement, even when you add that his wife didn't fear for him... It simply isn't the evidence of his belief you think it is. The entire letter is full of uncertainty. "I should think" and "must haves" considered.
 
Damo, Southern Man is retarded. You're wasting your time. Even if you could produce Washington's secret diary where he reveals he doesn't believe in anything but a diestic God and he says "I think Jesus was fiction" SM would attempt to spin it. He'd say something like, "Well, Washington knew his diary would be found some day and he was trying to protect his image in the eyes of history by lying about what he really felt!" Something totally stupid like that.

Nothing you could say could convince him that we're not a Christian nation. Just like no amount of evidence you could produce could convince Dixie that man has common ancestry with corn.
 
ib1yysguy said:
Damo, Southern Man is retarded. You're wasting your time. Even if you could produce Washington's secret diary where he reveals he doesn't believe in anything but a diestic God and he says "I think Jesus was fiction" SM would attempt to spin it. He'd say something like, "Well, Washington knew his diary would be found some day and he was trying to protect his image in the eyes of history by lying about what he really felt!" Something totally stupid like that.

Nothing you could say could convince him that we're not a Christian nation. Just like no amount of evidence you could produce could convince Dixie that man has common ancestry with corn.
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I agree. I have never seen SM (or Glockmail or any of his other incarnations) EVER admit that he had lost any argument. He is an intellectual giant only in his own mind and trying to disabuse him of that fantasy is like getting into a pissing contest with the tarbaby.... and one runs the risk of him obsessing on them... and emailing them and stalking them....

damo should take a deep breath and move on.
 
maineman said:
I agree. I have never seen SM (or Glockmail or any of his other incarnations) EVER admit that he had lost any argument. He is an intellectual giant only in his own mind and trying to disabuse him of that fantasy is like getting into a pissing contest with the tarbaby.... and one runs the risk of him obsessing on them... and emailing them and stalking them....

damo should take a deep breath and move on.
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Can you tell me again how you, as a Christian preacher, justify homosexuality and abortion?
 
Damocles said:
You are misinterpreting her argument, throughout the text she makes statements of uncertainty...
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Actually, what she does is make a statement of uncertainty, fully expecting the question to be raised by folks as yourself, then answers it with certainty. *shrug*
 
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