Michael Vick reinstated by NFL

Topspin said:
what percentage of owners are Black?
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I don't know, you seem to be the self-styled expert. Tell me what you think about it, it's your point. Clearly you believe only white guys race horses. I don't assume that same thing, especially considering racing horses exists in every community where horses exist.
 
Topspin said:
what percentage of owners are Black?
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In order to answer that question someone would need to have compiled a list of racehorse owners and their ethnicity.

Somehow i don't think anyone would have bothered to go to such lengths, but i may be wrong.
 
Watermark said:
They have?
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Danny Heatly, then star player for the hockey team in Atlanta KILLED a fellow teammate while driving his ferrari 100 mph down a residential street .. and he got ZERO time for doing it AND got traded to another team as his "penalty."

Atlanta Falcons player Patrick kerney was at his house when a rape occured there. His name wasn't even mentioned in the police report even though he went out drinking with buddies, they picked up a woman who was then raped .. at his house .. but his name wasn't even mentioned in the report.

His "penalty" was he got traded.

This all occured about the same time Vick was going through his troubles.
 
blackascoal said:
Danny Heatly, then star player for the hockey team in Atlanta KILLED a fellow teammate while driving his ferrari 100 mph down a residential street .. and he got ZERO time for doing it AND got traded to another team as his "penalty."

Atlanta Falcons player Patrick kerney was at his house when a rape occured there. His name wasn't even mentioned in the police report even though he went out drinking with buddies, they picked up a woman who was then raped .. at his house .. but his name wasn't even mentioned in the report.

His "penalty" was he got traded.

This all occured about the same time Vick was going through his troubles.
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Well, I would almost be tempted to argue the opposite: not that Vick's treatment should have matched others who have had legal troubles, but that we shouldn't continue to reward ANY athlete who steps over a certain line, and that the others have been treated with too much leniency.

I am torn on this issue. I agree that Vick has done his time, and in principle, agree that he, like anyone, deserves a second chance.

However, part of me thinks all of these guys are brats. They are given an enormous opportunity - yes, because of their talent, but there are a LOT of talented people who never get the privelege & blessings that some of these guys do. Some responsibility comes with the position they are given; they ARE role models, like it of not.

After awhile, I get tired of trying to explain all of these crimes & situations to my kids. Guys like Vick embarass the sport when they behave the way they do, and I have a hard time finding any empathy for them or feeling bad if they aren't given that second chance.
 
blackascoal said:
Danny Heatly, then star player for the hockey team in Atlanta KILLED a fellow teammate while driving his ferrari 100 mph down a residential street .. and he got ZERO time for doing it AND got traded to another team as his "penalty."

Atlanta Falcons player Patrick kerney was at his house when a rape occured there. His name wasn't even mentioned in the police report even though he went out drinking with buddies, they picked up a woman who was then raped .. at his house .. but his name wasn't even mentioned in the report.

His "penalty" was he got traded.

This all occured about the same time Vick was going through his troubles.
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Not one iota of which changes that what Vick did was wrong.

What another gets away with does not change what another does that is wrong. OJ killed two people in a front yard went home leaving bloody tracks directly to his place in order to get a wig and some cash and jump into a white Ford Bronco and race down the highway at 35 MPH, and got off, does that mean that a different man who was convicted should be let go?
 
selective punishment, beware the selection attached to false outrage issue will garner a more serious punishment.
killing dogs>2nd degree manslaughter

if your an athlete, my guess is plenty dog killers get probation or 30 days
 
Onceler said:
Well, I would almost be tempted to argue the opposite: not that Vick's treatment should have matched others who have had legal troubles, but that we shouldn't continue to reward ANY athlete who steps over a certain line, and that the others have been treated with too much leniency.

I am torn on this issue. I agree that Vick has done his time, and in principle, agree that he, like anyone, deserves a second chance.

However, part of me thinks all of these guys are brats. They are given an enormous opportunity - yes, because of their talent, but there are a LOT of talented people who never get the privelege & blessings that some of these guys do. Some responsibility comes with the position they are given; they ARE role models, like it of not.

After awhile, I get tired of trying to explain all of these crimes & situations to my kids. Guys like Vick embarass the sport when they behave the way they do, and I have a hard time finding any empathy for them or feeling bad if they aren't given that second chance.
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Athletes have always been given special treatment .. but that's true of all celebrity. The only reason they are "role models" is because American society makes them role models. Why should their talent be hostage to what your kids or anybody else may think of them? Most of these guys are in their twenties. How much of a role model were you in your twenties? How would you react if your life was on stage 24 hours a day? How would you react if you were in your twenties and showered with money, women, adoration, and all the things that come with celebrity.

I don't believe they should be treated differently than anyone else when it comes to the application of the law .. but conversly, they should be given the opportunity to redeem themselves just like everybody else regardless of their celebrity.

Vick made a mistake, he paid for it, he regrets it .. why is there still a problem? He was NOT given any special treatment by the law .. in fact, the sentence, based on the precedence, could have been lighter.
 
Damocles said:
Not one iota of which changes that what Vick did was wrong.

What another gets away with does not change what another does that is wrong. OJ killed two people in a front yard went home leaving bloody tracks directly to his place in order to get a wig and some cash and jump into a white Ford Bronco and race down the highway at 35 MPH, and got off, does that mean that a different man who was convicted should be let go?
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So what he did was wrong?

He paid for it, WAS NOT GIVEN ANY SPECIAL TREATMENT, he regrets it .. WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?
 
blackascoal said:
So what he did was wrong?

He paid for it, WAS NOT GIVEN ANY SPECIAL TREATMENT, he regrets it .. WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?
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I've said that many times.

He's paid his time, let him play. Just don't try to make him look like some good guy to me. First you won't be very successful, and second it won't change my mind that he should be allowed to play.

IMO, we agree on the important issue, he served his time, now he gets to be Vick. That's what's good about our system.
 
Damocles said:
I've said that many times.

He's paid his time, let him play. Just don't try to make him look like some good guy to me. First you won't be very successful, and second it won't change my mind that he should be allowed to play.

IMO, we agree on the important issue, he served his time, now he gets to be Vick. That's what's good about our system.
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Somewhere in this conversation you got it all twisted up and came to believe that I'm trying to make Vick look like some "good guy" to you.

Frankly I don't care how he looks to you nor do I care that you don't see him as a good guy. That's not the point. My point is that he served his time and should be given an opportunity for redemption regardless of how he looks to you or anyone else.

My point about other athletes is the selective retribution.

Lots of athletes playing and celebrities doing whatever they do who aren't good guys.

I agree with you on the most important aspect of this.
 
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Topspin said:
selective punishment, beware the selection attached to false outrage issue will garner a more serious punishment.
killing dogs>2nd degree manslaughter

if your an athlete, my guess is plenty dog killers get probation or 30 days
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Ruthlessly abusing and murdering dogs for fun is worse than a hunting accident that results in death, even if an adult had done it and not a child. You are one stupid, stupid man.
 
blackascoal said:
Danny Heatly, then star player for the hockey team in Atlanta KILLED a fellow teammate while driving his ferrari 100 mph down a residential street .. and he got ZERO time for doing it AND got traded to another team as his "penalty."

Atlanta Falcons player Patrick kerney was at his house when a rape occured there. His name wasn't even mentioned in the police report even though he went out drinking with buddies, they picked up a woman who was then raped .. at his house .. but his name wasn't even mentioned in the report.

His "penalty" was he got traded.

This all occured about the same time Vick was going through his troubles.
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1. Which apparently wasn't murder, was it? Murder has a specific meaning. Topper said murder.

2. His investigation was botched, but if he had been convicted he would had to serve the mandatory minimum just like everyone else.



All of this is nothing but a red herring argument. We say "hey, Vick..." and you guys immediately try to change subject.
 
Watermark said:
1. Which apparently wasn't murder, was it? Murder has a specific meaning. Topper said murder.

2. His investigation was botched, but if he had been convicted he would had to serve the mandatory minimum just like everyone else.



All of this is nothing but a red herring argument. We say "hey, Vick..." and you guys immediately try to change subject.
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1. Need I post cases of people driving far beyond the speed limit, killing someone, then being charged with murder. A person is dead because of recklessness if not intoxication. You make my point.

2. Pure speculation that he would have been tried like everybody else. Everybody else would have their name included in the police report and investigation. You can call it "botched", I'll call it special treatment.

You can say whatever you want, doesn't change facts. There was no special treatment for Vick as there were for the cases I mention and many others.

You and "we" can say whatever you want, the man paid his penalty and deserves to play again.
 
blackascoal said:
1. Need I post cases of people driving far beyond the speed limit, killing someone, then being charged with murder. A person is dead because of recklessness if not intoxication. You make my point.

2. Pure speculation that he would have been tried like everybody else. Everybody else would have their name included in the police report and investigation. You can call it "botched", I'll call it special treatment.

You can say whatever you want, doesn't change facts. There was no special treatment for Vick as there were for the cases I mention and many others.

You and "we" can say whatever you want, the man paid his penalty and deserves to play again.
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Obviously there's going to be a sentencing difference between those charged and convicted of a crime and not convicted. The fact is, Vick still got off leniently, and your other cases are nothing but red herrings in the way of that point.
 
Watermark said:
Obviously there's going to be a sentencing difference between those charged and convicted of a crime and not convicted. The fact is, Vick still got off leniently, and your other cases are nothing but red herrings in the way of that point.
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Excuse me but your argument is stupid and unlearned.

The prosecution recommended a sentence between 12 and 18 months, but the US District judge sentenced him to 23 months in prison .. thus destroying your ridiculous claim that he got off "leniently."

He got no special treatment.

The other crap you said is equally stupid.

America is the greatest prison nation the world has ever seen .. thus, according to you, the millions of felons released from our for-profit prison system deserve no second chance .., or is your angst just reserved for Michael Vick?
 
So I see black people are able to look past people's horrible crimes if they provide some form of entertainment value. Explains black culture that glorifies gangsta violence and then whines about stopping the violence
 
bullshit all your neocons would be saying it's the christian thing to do if he were white.
We'll not you gay fanny pack boys who don't like the NFL.
 
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