Mexico wasnt being built up by a European power to threaten the USA after the Mexican war either -
to use your analogy- as NATO did to Ukraine
Russia to annex Kherson Oblast
- Thread starter dukkha
- Start date
to use your analogy- as NATO did to Ukraine
no you make the case for Putin's desire for a return to USSR type hegemony.
I keep saying Ukraine is distinctly different then invading the Baltics (ex) because of the Ukraine govt's hostility to Russia backed up by NATO, and historical ties to Russia
moon
Satire for Sanity
Er....no- the Russians were welcomed as protectors and the referendum came close to unanimity . Crimea was always Russian, of course- being given, without consultation, to Ukraine by a drunken Nikita Krushev at a Grand Presidium meeting with no quorum.
If it had been 60%, that would have been believable. But this 96.77% in a region that is 15.7% Ukrainian just does not fly.
Ukraine never threatened to attack Russia which is a global superpower and could inflict devastation on Ukraine if it ever came to blows.
Prior to the invasion you cheered for, the vast majority of average, garden variety Ukrainians considered Russians brotherly Slavs, and many of them have friends and relatives in Russia.
The expectation of Ukraine ever attacking Russia was equivalent to the chance of Canada attacking the United States.
But you and Putin have now guaranteed that most Ukrainians will hate Russia now for generations to come.
first off i never "cheered" for the invasion -i supported recognition of DPR and LPR
the USA doesnt give a shit about Ukraine's relations to Russia -
why it militarized it and is using it as a proxy war against Russia
moon
Satire for Sanity
Go canvas New York to see if it's American. Lots of foreigners there.
cancel2 2022
Canceled
So why did Mother Russia reduce the likes of
Mariupol to so much rubble? The city is/was largely and traditionally Russian-speaking, whilst ethnically the population divided evenly between Ukrainians and Russians. Have a guess at how of those Russian speakers love Russia now?
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Putin sort of takes the most extreme that Russia could claim from different eras, adds a lot more, and that is his goal. Imperial Russia was bigger than the USSR, including Finland, Poland, and Alaska. Then he adds in the Warsaw Pact as satellite states, and finally Western Europe as satellite states.
Ukraine did not attack or invade Russia,
The United States never encouraged Ukraine to attack Russia,
Not a single Ukranian or NATO soldier is standing on sovereign Russian territory,
Not a single Russian city has been shelled into smouldering rubble by Ukranian or NATO artillery.
ive had this exact conversation with you already.
it's a proxy war against Russia by high tech weapons given to Ukraine
delusional. not worth a response
Those weapons weren't used to attack Russia, invade Russia, or shell Russian cities into oblivion.
They are being used to defend sovereign Ukrainian territory against invaders.
When you say NATO and Ukraine are waging War against Russia, you are making it sound like Russia was attacked.
Putin has wanted to reconstitute the Russian empire since the 1990s, long before the USA sold stinger missiles to Ukraine, and long before Ukraine asked to join the EU
Putin wanted to reconstitute the Russian empire long before USA sold a single stinger missile to Ukraine.
Putin had many years and plenty of time to make the case to Ukranians that Russia was a reliable and desirable partner to form bonds of economic, military, and political collaboration with. Just like USA has invested significant soft power to remain on good terms with Canada and Mexico.
If the sovereign nation of Ukraine decided they want to develop political bonds to EU and NATO, that is their right as an independent state. It's the free market of ideas, and Putin had all the time in the world to sell the Russian Federation as a reliable and desirable partner to Ukraine.
Putin had an agreement with Yanukovych for n ot joining the EU and in return getting nat gas debt relief.
This was just before the Maidan -which we manipulated to dispose of same
Ukraine had a free and fair election by world standards in 2017, in which the vast majority expressed their desire for a closer cooperation with Europe.
Putin has proved nothing he says can be trusted.
I saw what happened in Ukraine in 2013 on television. Those weren't CIA agents protesting in the streets of Kiev. They were grassroots Ukranian citizens
I understand where Putin is coming from, even though I don't agree with him, and reject his militaristic imperialism. The breakup of Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus in 1991 was a coup. I don't remember any massive groundswell of popular support to divide up the East Slavic republics in 1991. It was a coup engineered by Yelstin to strip Gorbachev of any meaningful power and influence.
I can sort of understand why Russian nationalists harbor a grudge about it. A coup never seems just, except to the backers of the coup. But that was 30 years ago. A whole generation has grown up in Ukraine in the shadow of Ukrainian nationalism. The horse has left the barn, and Putin's War is a misguided attempt to turn the clock back to 1987.
Nuland, McCain, Pyatt and Kagan were American officials on the ground at Independence Square
Even if I take your word for it sight unseen, what were they doing? Handing out rifles and ammunition? Coordinating the revolt by covert communications?
You have never provided a link to a reputable source proving that the Euromaiden revolution was hatched in a CIA office in Langley Virginia and coordinated on the ground by CIA agents.
Everyone here who was watching television in 2013 saw garden variety, grass roots Ukrainian citizens protesting a government they felt was illegitimate.
Ukraine has had a legitimate democratic election by world standards, since 2013. And they overwhelmingly elected Zalensky.
Putin had all the time in the world to sell the benefits of union and close collaboration with Russia to Ukrainians. His failure to do so is not the fault of Joe Biden or Barack Obama.