NJ GOV now GOP!!

Yurt said:
yeah right...you said:



what a way to "make fun" of someone....ask a question that begs logic....and then tell me to calm down after i tell you it was basically a stupid question.....

boy, you really got me good onceler....
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It was just in good fun. It was a mimic of your response to me when I was talking about the prosperity of the '90's, and didn't even mention Clinton, but you still wanted to make sure I wasn't giving Clinton "full credit."

To be honest, I thought that was obvious; I was surprised people took my question about Bush on this thread seriously. It makes no sense whatsoever...
 
Onceler said:
Civil unions is a moderate position.
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I see no reason to consider it a moderate position......most conservatives I know are puzzled why liberals took places like Massachusetts and California to court because civil unions or "domestic partnerships" weren't good enough for them....

"drill, baby, drill" ..... so many conservatives oppose common sense measures just as a knee jerk reaction.
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lol....drilling IS a common sense measure....and there is no reason to think that drilling for oil is damaging to the environment, making that assumption IS a knee jerk reaction.....

As for spending cuts, I think where conservatives and moderates probably differ comes in assessing what can & should be cut, and what is vital to maintain...
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lol....and it's where liberals and moderates, and liberals and conservatives differ as well, but you can't define "moderates" based on their willingness to have taxes and cut spending.....as you say, everybody is willing to have taxes and cut spending....
 
"lol....drilling IS a common sense measure....and there is no reason to think that drilling for oil is damaging to the environment, making that assumption IS a knee jerk reaction....."

Nothing about what I wrote says that I think it's damaging to the environment, or that I don't think drilling is a common sense measure. I was only saying that I think conservatives, by & large, see it as more of a choice, and they are erring on the side of "drill, baby, drill." For the record, I support more drilling until green tech gets more up to speed.

"lol....and it's where liberals and moderates, and liberals and conservatives differ as well, but you can't define "moderates" based on their willingness to have taxes and cut spending.....as you say, everybody is willing to have taxes and cut spending.... "

I almost included liberals, but I thought that was assumed. If we wanted to spend a day on it, I think we'd probably find some agreement if we looked at every program the government funds or supports in some way, and guessed what the liberal, moderate & conservative view would be on whether it should be cut partially, completely or not at all...
 
PostmodernProphet said:
so you are adopting a conservative position on energy?......


I think it's a stretch, though, to say liberals support spending cuts on much of anything other than defense......
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I still can't get over Onceler supports personal accounts or even privatizing (? don't want to state a wrong position) social security. Again because one is a D or an R that doesn't mean they do or must support all the party's positions but S.S. is such a bedrock or staple of Democratic belief it's really against the grain especially for one who otherwise seems to be a pretty strong Democrat.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
so you are adopting a conservative position on energy?......


I think it's a stretch, though, to say liberals support spending cuts on much of anything other than defense......
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I have adopted a moderate position - drilling combined with aggressive measures to advance green tech.

As for spending cuts, there are all different kinds of liberals. I wouldn't be so dismissive of the defense budget, to start with - that is an inordinate chunk of our expenditures, and needs a major, major revamping. Most moderates agree that it can basically be slashed and reorganized.

But there are liberals who promote more efficient government, and the reduction of bureaucracy in general. There is nothing about a liberal political philosophy that is incompatible with fiscal responsibility. Al Gore started a project on "reinventing government" in the late '90's which was making some real headway, but was abandoned after the 2000 election, unfortunately...
 
Onceler said:
I have adopted a moderate position - drilling combined with aggressive measures to advance green tech.
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now I see your error....you think it's a moderate position because you have accepted it....even though it's been the conservative position for years.....sorry, as I said earlier, there is no moderate position, they merely agree with a conservative one or a liberal one.......I think someone else once said "You don't straddle a fence you built yourself"...........
 
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cawacko said:
I still can't get over Onceler supports personal accounts or even privatizing (? don't want to state a wrong position) social security. Again because one is a D or an R that doesn't mean they do or must support all the party's positions but S.S. is such a bedrock or staple of Democratic belief it's really against the grain especially for one who otherwise seems to be a pretty strong Democrat.
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Yeah - I do support privatization. SS has become way to politicized; privatizing is totally common sense, and as much of a win-win as you can get in politics if it could ever be thoughtfully implemented...
 
Onceler said:
Yeah - I do support privatization. SS has become way to politicized; privatizing is totally common sense, and as much of a win-win as you can get in politics if it could ever be thoughtfully implemented...
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I was writing that in response to the surprise that you may hold a conservative position on energy.
 
cawacko said:
I was writing that in response to the surprise that you may hold a conservative position on energy.
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Well, I support drilling. I don't think my position is like conservatives, however.

I realize that there are conservatives who support aggressive promotion of green tech, but as a national party, they sure are quiet about it. It's all emphasis. I brought up "drill, baby, drill," because there was such emphasis on that during the convention & campaign, and it's nothing more than a stop-gap measure, that isn't very meaningful in either the short or long run. It's not an energy policy.

If you listen to Hannity talk about his ideal energy policy, he talks about drilling, strip mining, more coal plants, more nukes, etc. To me, he embodies the conservative fear that green tech is a "liberal" issue. He might mention it, but it is WAY down the list of priorities & what he thinks should lead off the plan of attack.

Green tech needs to promoted much more than it currently is; we have to allocate budget to encourage more R & D, and give tax incentives for its production & use. That's where my energy policy starts.
 
Onceler said:
Of course there is a moderate position. Gay rights? Moderates support civil unions, but are okay with marriage not being legal. The environment? Moderates support aggressive measures to promote & incent green technology, but not arbitrary limits on consumption. Fiscal policy? Moderates push for a progressive tax system that doesn't punish the rich, and seek a more efficient government that cuts spending without doing so in Draconian fashion.

The list goes on. Moderates rule.
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Agreed....

On each of the positions you mentioned.
 
Onceler said:
To me, he embodies the conservative fear that green tech is a "liberal" issue. He might mention it, but it is WAY down the list of priorities & what he thinks should lead off the plan of attack.
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To me Hannity emboddies the far right....at least farther right than I am on a lot of things. I can't stand to watch any of his shows. To me he's worse than Glenn Beck (at least Beck knows he's a nut) because Hannity wants to portray himself as some sort of intelligent political commentator but he is really a far right hack.
 
leaningright said:
To me Hannity emboddies the far right....at least farther right than I am on a lot of things. I can't stand to watch any of his shows. To me he's worse than Glenn Beck (at least Beck knows he's a nut) because Hannity wants to portray himself as some sort of intelligent political commentator but he is really a far right hack.
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To me, Hannity embodies an idiot... thus, he should be shot... because I am truly tired of the extreme idiots on both sides of the aisle.
 
leaningright said:
To me Hannity emboddies the far right....at least farther right than I am on a lot of things. I can't stand to watch any of his shows. To me he's worse than Glenn Beck (at least Beck knows he's a nut) because Hannity wants to portray himself as some sort of intelligent political commentator but he is really a far right hack.
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That is true. When I hear him, I tend to think "that's the conservative position," and there are certainly many who agree with him, but I would agree that he's more on the far end of the spectrum...
 
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Democratic strategist James Carville said the results show the GOP is “all gassed up” and suggested that the Republican sweep may undermine Obama’s legislative agenda, including his healthcare reform plans.
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http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/obama_new_jersey_virginia/2009/11/03/281284.html
 
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