We can't afford NOT TO do single payer health care

[LV426]

For both me and the wife medicare is near $4000 a year, $164 each a month taken out from SS for each of us

I still think that's too high.

 

[Mason Michaels]

Actually, that's exactly how it started out. As a way to suppress wages.

Health insurance is part of wages,it just doesn't work anymore!

 

[LV426]

Employer based health insurance is designed to depress wages, AND save the company money. Insurance costs are not subject to an employer's matching FICA contribution. They essentially save 8+% on every dollar they spend on insurance.

I think that's the case for large employers but for businesses of 50 employees or less, this single payer plan would help save costs immensely.

 

[Althea]

Health insurance is part of wages,it just doesn't work anymore!

It works great for many...typically union members.

People like myself who spent 40+ years in the individual market? Not so much. That was one great aspect of the ACA as designed, but it was never allowed to come to fruition.

 

[Mason Michaels]

It works great for many...typically union members.

People like myself who spent 40+ years in the individual market? Not so much. That was one great aspect of the ACA as designed, but it was never allowed to come to fruition.

Union members are paying much more out of pocket, and union members are way down in numbers than they were in the 60's and 70's. Unions don't have the power they once did!

 

[LV426]

Health insurance is part of wages,it just doesn't work anymore!

Exactly! So abolish all private insurance plans and put everyone on the same insurance plan. Problem solved! Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

 

[Mason Michaels]

I think that's the case for large employers but for businesses of 50 employees or less, this single payer plan would help save costs immensely.

Actually if large employers paid much less per employee paying into Medicare,then they do now,why would they not back Medicare for all?

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Doubled from what to what?

You aren't the best person to determine your health.

it doubled. literally, if not a tad bit more, and yes I am the best person to determine my health. I've not been hospitalized for over 25 years. I go to the doctor every year for a physical......i'm healthy.

Well, according to the poll it is.

So what we have here is you refusing to accept empirical evidence because it runs in direct conflict with your preferred narrative.

You do that ALL THE TIME, BTW.

and you don't ignore polls you don't like?????

Well, the world doesn't revolve around you and there are millions of people who seem to like it a lot.

So what I think is happening here is that someone convinced you with propaganda that VA care was bad, and you liked hearing that because it affirmed your biases. But you were too chickenshit or lazy to look any further into it, so you dismiss it instead because you won't believe it.

Believing it would force you to change your inherent beliefs but you think that judgment of yours is infallible.

So that's the dissonance.

It's funny...with you fascists, it always, always, always seems to come down to dissonance in the end. Every time. Without fail.

Every fascist/Conservative/Libertarian belief has dissonance at its core.

I know over two dozen vets, most of them Marines.........not a single one of them likes the VA. they use it because they have to, but none of them like it. Now, two dozen out of a million may seem anecdotal to you.........but that's where you screw things up.........you LIKE taking good government numbers and 'vibes' because you like government..........which is odd, considering that you don't care for the military at all.

 

[LV426]

Actually if large employers paid much less per employee paying into Medicare,then they do now,why would they not back Medicare for all?

Many of them do.

Why Some CEOs Figure ‘Medicare For All’ Is Good For Business
https://khn.org/news/a-large-employer-frames-the-medicare-for-all-debate/

 

[SmarterthanYou]

The reimbursement RATE is the same for every provider. The reimbursement rate will be the same across every procedure too.

so you've made a determination that no matter how many complicated or difficult cases a doctor has to deal with, that doctor will be paid the same as a doctor that does nothing but factory process immunizations..........that is how you destroy health care.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Again, if you are thinking in terms of red and black ink, then you are focused on profits, not outcomes.

I want a health care system focused on outcomes because I use that health care system.

I have yet to hear a compelling case for why there should be any profit motive in health care at all.

again, you've destroyed health care. I understand that doctors care about patients, but EVERYONE wants to prosper. you should just come out and say you want socialized society, especially medicine.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

No, we'd be trading a system focused on profit to one focused on outcomes.

When the focus is outcomes, the funding almost doesn't even matter...and wouldn't you want the maximum spent on your health care? It is your health, after all.

and when a patient dies???????

 

[Althea]

I think that's the case for large employers but for businesses of 50 employees or less, this single payer plan would help save costs immensely.

There really is a lot to be worked out, as it has to be funded. Sanders' plan would impose yet another payroll tax on employers/employees, and self employed would pick up both ends of that.

Sadly, the answer is simple, but won't ever happen.

A $.25 fee on every Wall St. transaction would cost investors nothing, and generate countless billions every week. We could fund quite a few programs in this nation.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

I am not ignoring it. Are you of the opinion that people working for the government do it without compensation? As for corruption, you seem to be much more concerned with the kinds of corruption that infects government than you are with the vastly greater corruption that infects capitalism and private accommodation.

amazingly you have shown just how ignorant of government corruption you are, especially comparing it to capitalism. there are other countries out there for you, leave this one.

 

[LV426]

it doubled. .

Doubled over...13 years? That's an incredibly SLOW rate of growth.

and you don't ignore polls you don't like?

This isn't like an election poll. This is one they do every year, and every year it produces the same results.

I know over two dozen vets, most of them Marines.........not a single one of them likes the VA. they use it because they have to, but none of them like it. Now, two dozen out of a million may seem anecdotal to you.........but that's where you screw things up.........you LIKE taking good government numbers and 'vibes' because you like government..........which is odd, considering that you don't care for the military at all.

You know my rule on anecdotes...so let's try to keep this within the confines of what is empirical; meaning, let's only discuss things in terms we can both see.

A Gallup poll is empirical, anecdotes are not.

 

[Guno צְבִי]

I still think that's too high.

Its $164 for every body on medicare per month, it came down from $170 last year

 

[Althea]

again, you've destroyed health care. I understand that doctors care about patients, but EVERYONE wants to prosper. you should just come out and say you want socialized society, especially medicine.

Actually, the issue is the cost of drugs. Why do we pay 10 times what other nations pay for American made drugs?

 

[Althea]

Its $164 for every body on medicare per month it came down from $170 last year

Yes...but we're required to pay for C&D also.

 

[LV426]

so you've made a determination that no matter how many complicated or difficult cases a doctor has to deal with, that doctor will be paid the same as a doctor that does nothing but factory process immunizations..........that is how you destroy health care.

Not "paid", reimbursed.

The doctor pays themselves if they have a private practice, or someone pays them if they're in a provider network.

You're blurring the line between reimbursement and wages. Those are two different things. They are not interchangeable.

Think of reimbursements like revenue...the company (or DR's office in this case) is receiving reimbursements and from those, personnel expenses are paid.

So the more work a doctor does, the more they will get paid.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Doubled over...13 years? That's an incredibly SLOW rate of growth.

did you already forget that I said in 2 years??????

You know my rule on anecdotes...so let's try to keep this within the confines of what is empirical; meaning, let's only discuss things in terms we can both see.

A Gallup poll is empirical, anecdotes are not.

empirical removes the humanity out of it........I prefer to deal with humanity, not government promoted statistics.