Mass shootings = symptoms of a much worse problem

Bigdog said:
Wrong. We are NOT a continent. We haven't had a war on the contiguous U.S. for over 150 years. Our main language is English, ... NOT a mixture of Euro languages. Unlike historic Europe, we have religious freedom. Schools are schools where ever you go. We dumped Euro monarchy and Euro slavery a long time ago.

Even the Euro countries have distinct cultures.

You are floundering and flopping.
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You would do better if you absorbed what you read. The post quoted you, then said "more exactly a country". English is a Western European language, which does not mean there are not other Western European languages. Europeans also dumped monarchy and slavery long ago. Our first universities, which remain, were modeled precisely on English academies. In short, like Western Europe our culture has been shaped by the Reformation and The Enlightenment to a degree that distinguishes us from other cultures.

A flounderer and flopper is someone who tries much too hard, as you're doing, falling over himself.
 
zymurgy said:
you believe in sasquatch
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Who told you this??? No, I don't.
zymurgy said:
I don't believe
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This is also an act of faith. Of course, so is believing in Sasquatch (it's a proper noun, it is capitalized).
zymurgy said:
Johnny has never even heard of the concept. He does not need faith. you are wrong.
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False equivalence fallacy. You have heard of God. You have heard of people believing that demons and spirits inhabit physical objects (Shinto). You have heard of Buddhism. You have heard of the Church of No God (they often mistakenly call themselves 'athests'). You are not 'Johnny' here.

Your belief that a god or that gods may or may not exist is itself a belief.
Believing in the Sasquatch is a belief.
Believing there is no Sasquatch is a belief.

ALL require faith. ALL are based on a circular argument (by itself that is not a fallacy).
 
BartenderElite said:
I hate how both sides react to these. The left is no doubt bad - it's all guns, all the time. But the right is no better. If it's a Muslim - time for a travel ban! If it's a transgender, it's all "see! We told you they were dangerous." Even though both groups account for less than 1% of American mass shootings.

The answer? We're sick as a nation. And this is a symptom. If we had a doctor for countries, we'd be admitted to the emergency room right away. This is like a Stage 4 kind of symptom. We've let things go. We've allowed divisiveness, hate & fear trump the better angels of our nature. We've allowed demagogues to rule the day, and we've let the internet run wild. And guns are PART of the problem, as well. There is no coincidence between the fact that we lead the world in gun ownership, and gun violence. Saying the answer is "more guns" is an incredible disconnect.

I have no answer, but I know where the answers lie: in honest discussion. Not "how can this help my side" knee-jerk reactions. We've gotta stop politicizing this stuff, and think through all aspects of it in an unbiased, critical way. We need real leaders, and not cartoon characters.

Lives depend on this. We have to step up. It is time.
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we had plenty of guns in the 60s 70s 80s and real easy to get. No computer back ground check etc..some high schools like mine had trucks in parking lot with guns on gun racks. And no mass school shootings..ITS NOT THE GUNS!
 
volsrock said:
we had plenty of guns in the 60s 70s 80s and real easy to get. No computer back ground check etc..some high schools like mine had trucks in parking lot with guns on gun racks. And no mass school shootings..ITS NOT THE GUNS!
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No one wants your shitty skunk master and your rack
 
martin said:
You would do better if you absorbed what you read. The post quoted you, then said "more exactly a country". English is a Western European language, which does not mean there are not other Western European languages. Europeans also dumped monarchy and slavery long ago. Our first universities, which remain, were modeled precisely on English academies. In short, like Western Europe our culture has been shaped by the Reformation and The Enlightenment to a degree that distinguishes us from other cultures.

A flounderer and flopper is someone who tries much too hard, as you're doing, falling over himself.
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Argument of the Stone fallacy. Inversion fallacy. You are the one floundering and flopping here.

Different European countries have different cultures...even under the auspices of the EU.
The main language in the States is English. There is not getting around that. Europe does not have a lot of religious freedom, which is why refugees came to America to get away from it all and worship as they saw fit for themselves. The same thing happened to what is now Greece. Many nations in Europe have ceded their sovereignty to the European Union, which is an oligarchy (dictatorship by committee). This committee attempts to quash religious freedom (it really isn't possible to do so).

The United States of America is truly unique of the cultures that came out of Europe. It was organized as a federated republic, with no titles of nobility, visions of ending slavery (which it finally did), leaving power in local control and giving the federal layer very limited power, and began the long road to treat everyone equally under the law (yet to be achieved, despite the 14th amendment).

That had never been done before, not even with the republic of Rome (which didn't last very long, due to it's weak structure and unwillingness to eliminate chattel slavery). At the time of the founding of the United States, Europe was ruled by various kings, and chattel slavery was common. By the time the War of Secession occurred, chattel slavery was being abandoned by most nations already (it still exists today in a few, however). Slavery in some form (other than chattel) currently exists in some 170 nations (mostly in the form of forced marriages, forced prisoner labor, or debt enslavement). Chattel slavery still exists in about a dozen nations today.
 
volsrock said:
we had plenty of guns in the 60s 70s 80s and real easy to get. No computer back ground check etc..some high schools like mine had trucks in parking lot with guns on gun racks. And no mass school shootings..ITS NOT THE GUNS!
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Quite a few high schools had gun clubs. You brought your gun to school for gun club.
 
Some want to remove guns from the conversation altogether. I just don't know how you can have an honest discussion about how to address gun violence without including guns.

I think conservatives tend to hear that and think, here we go again. They want to ban guns. No doubt, some do. But there are common sense approaches that don't have to infringe upon Constitutional rights. The other factors in this discussion - culture, family, social media, mental health, et al. - have all created a society where there are a significant # of people who most would agree should not own a gun, or have access to one. That belongs in this discussion.
 
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