Afghanistan and false democracy.

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Everyone knows a corrupt government is better than the Taliban? I dont know that. At least the Taliban doesn't rob from its own people. They may have been a little strict with their laws but other than that? Way better than a corupt government. Most of these corrupt governments cause wide spread poverty. How is that better?

A little bit strict with their laws? Tell that to the girl who's stoned to death for sleeping with someone other than your husband. The corruption comes to, at most, a trivial percentage of their economy. I assume you think that saving a few million bucks is worth killing thousands of women? You gotta make tradeoffs somewhere, eh?

Anything short of pure anarchy is better than religious government. I would rather live under Stalin than the Tailban.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

looks like you me and azzhat are the only anti elitist here.

I'm an elitist, you guys are nutbags.

 

[Billy the Great Khan]

Child please read something, these are a bunch of towel heads that don't amount to much.
let me guess, you didn't go nor do you have kids you want to send to this bullshit war?

And you get on people like ME about being racist and KKK members?

And this is nothing like Vietnam, other than perhaps similar lengths of time.

 

[Topspin]

And you get on people like ME about being racist and KKK members?

And this is nothing like Vietnam, other than perhaps similar lengths of time.

I never called you either

it's exactly like Vietnam, a bullshit war we have no business in.

The way it's different today is the elitist are prob profiting more off of our young soldiers blood than they did in the 70's.

Afghanistan didn't have shit to do with 911. Period
Ask Russia how thier vietnam in Afghanistan went

 

[Billy the Great Khan]

I never called you either

it's exactly like Vietnam, a bullshit war we have no business in.

The way it's different today is the elitist are prob profiting more off of our young soldiers blood than they did in the 70's.

Afghanistan didn't have shit to do with 911. Period
Ask Russia how thier vietnam in Afghanistan went

Yeah, the Russians got their ass handed to them in Afghan. Anyone who studied history knows that. But yeah, in the end, it's totally different.

Hell, name three things, other than length, that are similar between the two.

 

[Topspin]

Yeah, the Russians got their ass handed to them in Afghan. Anyone who studied history knows that. But yeah, in the end, it's totally different.

Hell, name three things, other than length, that are similar between the two.

1. we were lied to about the cause
2. useless war
3. lots of dead honorable soldiers who died for jackass who lied

 

[Billy the Great Khan]

1. we were lied to about the cause

How so? Last time I checked, their government refused to hand over the man who claimed responsibility for an attack on American soil

2. useless war

, if trying to help build a country up from nothing and keep it citizens free, with no gain in material (other than a possible gateway into Iran, but more on that later) is useless, sure.

3. lots of dead honorable soldiers who died for jackass who lied

Wouldn't be different from your first assertion and you still need to elaborate/prove it.

 

[Topspin]

[
, if trying to help build a country up from nothing and keep it citizens free, with no gain in material (other than a possible gateway into Iran, but more on that later) is useless, sure.


lots of countries need help, we aren't at war with them.

 

[Topspin]

The 9/11 attack was plotted in some apartments in Germany and Spain. Not in afghanistan.

The training for the attack took place in the United States, in our flight training facilities.

It was financed by a Saudi and an Egyptian.

It was carried out by saudi citizens, with saudi money, and facilitated by reactionary elements within the Saudi government.

There wasn't a single damn Afghan citizen involved, nor was the Taliban government involved in the plot. I don't even think in the history of international terrorism, an afghan citizen has ever killed an american, prior to our invasion.

The taliban can be blamed for a lot of shit. But the taliban and afghans at large were not involved in planning the attack, facilitating the attack, or providing any sort of training or $$$ for the attack

 

[Billy the Great Khan]

[
, if trying to help build a country up from nothing and keep it citizens free, with no gain in material (other than a possible gateway into Iran, but more on that later) is useless, sure.


lots of countries need help, we aren't at war with them.

No, but since we were there anyways...

 

[Billy the Great Khan]

The 9/11 attack was plotted in some apartments in Germany and Spain. Not in afghanistan.

The training for the attack took place in the United States, in our flight training facilities.

It was financed by a Saudi and an Egyptian.

It was carried out by saudi citizens, with saudi money, and facilitated by reactionary elements within the Saudi government.

There wasn't a single damn Afghan citizen involved, nor was the Taliban government involved in the plot. I don't even think in the history of international terrorism, an afghan citizen has ever killed an american, prior to our invasion.

The taliban can be blamed for a lot of shit. But the taliban and afghans at large were not involved in planning the attack, facilitating the attack, or providing any sort of training or $$$ for the attack

True, but does not refute the fact that the government and tribal leaders of Afghanistan REFUSED to hand over the man/men who claimed responsibility for the attacks.

 

[Topspin]

No, but since we were there anyways...

that's a great reason and I'm sure you'd fight for it cause you sound like a tough son of bitch unlike the chickenhawks around here.

I know your young. Say you have a 17 yr old son. Do you want him going to die for this cause???

 

[Billy the Great Khan]

that's a great reason and I'm sure you'd fight for it cause you sound like a tough son of bitch unlike the chickenhawks around here.

I know your young. Say you have a 17 yr old son. Do you want him going to die for this cause???

I would certainly say if he believed in it, yes. There are far worse things that we have fought over.

But on a whole, I agree, we shouldn't meddle in the affairs of other countries. That's why I think we should pull out of EVERY NATION. Japan, Cuba, Turkey, Spain, Germany, Iceland, Etc. But until then, we need to stay the course in Afghanistan and try and help them bring themselves up.

 

[wiseones2cents]

True, but does not refute the fact that the government and tribal leaders of Afghanistan REFUSED to hand over the man/men who claimed responsibility for the attacks.

And that justifies the tens of thousands of civilians you have killed, not to mention all the widows and orphans??

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Everyone knows a corrupt government is better than the Taliban? I dont know that. At least the Taliban doesn't rob from its own people. They may have been a little strict with their laws but other than that? Way better than a corupt government. Most of these corrupt governments cause wide spread poverty. How is that better?

Okay, so let's get this on the record.... You are okay with stoning women to death who were raped, because they were found guilty of being whores? You are okay with executing homosexuals, or anyone who is accused of homosexual acts? You are okay with demanding women keep their heads covered in public at all times, and walking three paces behind their husband? You are okay with aiding and abetting a religious organization hell bent on destroying western culture worldwide, through any means necessary, including the cold-blooded murder of innocent civilians? ...so long as poverty doesn't spread, right?

 

[Billy the Great Khan]

And that justifies the tens of thousands of civilians you have killed, not to mention all the widows and orphans??

And what would you know of war my friend? I can say I've never killed anyone in my service, much less an innocent. Mistakes are inevitable. That's not a justification, that's just the truth. It doesn't make it right.

But in the end, I see it as more justification to stay, to try and make some good comes from our mistakes and perhaps ensure that more of the same does not happen to a people who have obviously suffered.

 

[wiseones2cents]

Okay, so let's get this on the record.... You are okay with stoning women to death who were raped, because they were found guilty of being whores? You are okay with executing homosexuals, or anyone who is accused of homosexual acts? You are okay with demanding women keep their heads covered in public at all times, and walking three paces behind their husband? You are okay with aiding and abetting a religious organization hell bent on destroying western culture worldwide, through any means necessary, including the cold-blooded murder of innocent civilians? ...so long as poverty doesn't spread, right?

I'm not ok with it but what does that have to do with anything? This is happening in many parts of the world. Why aren't you meddling in their affairs? Simply because they are not profitable ventures. So get off your high horse. That entire thing about bringing freedom is only code name for robing their resources. In Iraq oil, in Afghan Natural gas and opium.

You think that the ruling party in place is not raping women, or execuitng homos or keeping women covered?

Oh please. That was America's B.S. excuse that they attacked because of Americans freedoms. They dont care about our way of life, they just want their way of life to be left alone. If they had a stronger army would you like it if they bombed you because of your immoral culture? And believe me, America the whore of babylon of today is due.

The only people I see killing civilians all over the world is the American army and allies. How many unnecessary deaths in Iraq and Afghan alone? And they are still planning to attack more countries. And for what? So the powers that be can install their puppet leaders with their b.s. democracy and bleed the country dry, like they do everywhere else.

 

[Billy the Great Khan]

I'm not ok with it but what does that have to do with anything? This is happening in many parts of the world. Why aren't you meddling in their affairs? Simply because they are not profitable ventures. So get off your high horse. That entire thing about bringing freedom is only code name for robing their resources. In Iraq oil, in Afghan Natural gas and opium.

You think that the ruling party in place is not raping women, or execuitng homos or keeping women covered?

Oh please. That was America's B.S. excuse that they attacked because of Americans freedoms. They dont care about our way of life, they just want their way of life to be left alone. If they had a stronger army would you like it if they bombed you because of your immoral culture? And believe me, America the whore of babylon of today is due.

The only people I see killing civilians all over the world is the American army and allies. How many unnecessary deaths in Iraq and Afghan alone? And they are still planning to attack more countries. And for what? So the powers that be can install their puppet leaders with their b.s. democracy and bleed the country dry, like they do everywhere else.

Well, these statements sure would be damning if you had these little things, called, EVIDENCE and MOTIVE.

 

[wiseones2cents]

And what would you know of war my friend? I can say I've never killed anyone in my service, much less an innocent. Mistakes are inevitable. That's not a justification, that's just the truth. It doesn't make it right.

But in the end, I see it as more justification to stay, to try and make some good comes from our mistakes and perhaps ensure that more of the same does not happen to a people who have obviously suffered.

I know war causes death, destruction, misery and DEBT!!!!!Unless you are a ruling party of the winning side.

Oh the collateral damage b.s. excuse. Well that doesn't cut it! When they kill your family by "accident", then you can come talk to me and tell me what you think of war!

THEY ARE SUFFERING BECAUSE OF YOU AND THE LONGER YOU STAY THE MORE PEOPLE WILL GET KILLED BECAUSE OF YOU!(hit the cap button and dont feel like retyping.) How much "mistakes" are you willing to make? ANother 10,000 innocent lives? Andother 50,000? Another 1,000,000? To you these are numbers on a piece of paper. To them these are loved ones that are dying.

The Afghan people have suffered because of wars after wars after wars. It had nothing to do with rulership.

 

[Billy the Great Khan]

I know war causes death, destruction, misery and DEBT!!!!!Unless you are a ruling party of the winning side.

So does peace in many places. Don't confuse necessity with advocacy.

Oh the collateral damage b.s. excuse. Well that doesn't cut it! When they kill your family by "accident", then you can come talk to me and tell me what you think of war!

I'd rather act out with logic than emotion, so your query means little to me.

THEY ARE SUFFERING BECAUSE OF YOU AND THE LONGER YOU STAY THE MORE PEOPLE WILL GET KILLED BECAUSE OF YOU!(hit the cap button and dont feel like retyping.)

I'm pretty sure they suffered long before America came over, and you're free to ask any Iraqi I've ever met how they enjoy their life now.

How much "mistakes" are you willing to make? ANother 10,000 innocent lives? Andother 50,000? Another 1,000,000? To you these are numbers on a piece of paper. To them these are loved ones that are dying.

So it's not a loved one lost when our ROE stopped us from engaging a insurgent and resulting in 3 dear friends getting killed (not my story, a buddy's)? I'd rather not have any civilian deaths, but guess what, it happens. Yes it's tragic to lose someone you love, I know. And yes, it's cold to write it off as a mistake. But honestly, that's what it is. The amount of time and training we have in NOT engaging anyone these days would boggle your mind.

The Afghan people have suffered because of wars after wars after wars. It had nothing to do with rulership.

Speculation.