Oil demand growth is set to significantly slow by 2028 thanks to the use of more EVs.

No. He's right. YOUR are wrong.

Li-ion is a solid state battery and has been for 40 years, so you can drop that 'breakthrough' right now.
Now let's discuss the sodium based battery:

Sodium has a lower electron potential than lithium (only 2.71 compared to Lithium 3.04). This reduces the available capacity of joules available per mole of sodium in a battery. In other words, for a battery with the same number of atoms in it, sodium has lower capacity. Sodium batteries are almost four times heavier than their Li-ion counterparts as well. This will make the car too heavy. A 50Mj Li-ion battery pack weighs half a ton. A 50Mj Na-ion battery pack will weigh 2 tons.
Sodium metal also doesn't occur naturally. It is very expensive to synthesize from something like sodium chloride (common salt), with electrolysis being the favored method (consuming vast amounts of electricity to do it). Sodium metal is also much more reactive than Lithium when exposed to water or even water vapor, making this battery FAR MORE DANGEROUS than any Li-ion battery (which ALREADY have problems with fire!). Sodium has a greater fire hazard rating than lithium. Exposure to water or water vapor causes fire at room temperature! Watch out for those hot humid days!

Like any battery, it must be charged. Where are you going to get the power from? Solar and wind are piddle power. They can't do it. Solar is also the most expensive method of producing power there is, with wind being the 2nd most expensive method.

After 2035, when semi-trucks using diesel fuel are banned, how is California going to install or maintain any wind or solar plant? There no practical EV trucks.

This is not new science. There is no science here. Engineering is not science. THIS proposed engineering is stupid, for the reasons I just described.

Sodium is MUCH rarer than lithium. ALL of it must be manufactured, using tremendous amounts of energy to manufacture in the quantity needed. It is also MUCH MORE dangerous to handle and creates a much more dangerous battery.

Such a house will never meet building code. Fire hazard. I suggest you go study the building codes including structural, fire, plumbing, HVAC, and electrical codes. Those codes are there for a reason.

Smart utility companies buy their power from reliable sources that are easily ramped up or down as loads change. They buy from sources that are cheapest. Solar and wind ain't it. They can neither be ramped up or down on demand, they are unreliable, and they are VERY expensive sources of electric power. Remember, power utilities purchase power by the watt.

Texas has never sustained a collapse of it's power grid. California is well on it's way there, though. Being part of the WRIC, they now import almost all their power. Those lines are seriously overloaded now. The WRIC will not sacrifice itself to save California. It will shed the load. California goes dark.

California already suffers rolling blackouts due to poor power generating capacity. If an overloaded power line touches a tree or something, that could set off a chain reaction in the grid. WRIC will disconnect California to save itself. California goes dark. Not rolling blackouts...BLACKOUT.

Charging batteries means that power is not available for use elsewhere. At best you get a few hours from the batteries before they are discharged. Remember you can't charge a battery with solar power at night. You cannot charge a battery with wind power unless the wind is within a narrow range of windspeed and there are no icing conditions (wind generators cannot run in icing conditions).

ICE cars have undergone dramatic improvement. Far more than EVs. In just the last decade, for example, better materials have come available for gaskets, engine casings (what you call the 'block'), improvements in sensor designs (now there are sensors that monitor your tire pressure in a rotating wheel!). Further, since the Li-ion battery was invented in the 80s', ICE cars have completely replaced that old carburetor with FADEC designs, vastly improving mileage and producing a much cleaner burn, producing little more than CO2 and water for the exhaust. EGR systems have essentially eliminated NOx gas formation during the burn, and the smog that comes with it. Even L.A. is basically free of smog now, suffering only marine haze and dust storms primarily. Nothing like the stuff in the 70's that you could cut with a butter knife.

Ahhh...the old 'horse and buggy' argument..*yawn*.
ICE cars ARE pushing technology. EVs aren't. They've been using the same battery developed 40 years ago and cage rotor motors developed 50 years ago. The cars are spiffier looking, but that's about it. They tend to be shoddy and have poor handling characteristics due to their excessive weight (Na-ion batteries will make that FAR worse!).

Blatant lie. History favors the gasoline car and has for a long time. Currently, less than 1% of the cars on the road are EVs. Those gasoline cars are using latest technology. The EVs aren't. All that's happened to the EV is just bigger and bigger battery packs (some vehicles now sport 150Mj packs, weighing over 2 tons).

It's about power to weight ratio. That's why you don't see a lot of people buying into the EV, and why you don't see practical electric powered aircraft.
Gasoline engines are light, use a renewable fuel (that's actually pretty cheap once you take all the fucking taxes, restrictions, and overregulation away!), are easy to maintain using commonly available tools, and new ICE cars require no more maintenance than new EVs. Gasoline engines are cheaper, more efficient (using about half the energy of an EV to go the same distance for the same sized car), lighter (reducing road wear and making it practical for aircraft), and because of the FADEC design these engines now use, are self adjusting, self monitoring, self diagnosing of developing problems, provide free cabin heat in winter (EVs use the battery, seriously reducing range), and have an infinite practical range (gasoline engines don't need hours to charge!).

Worried about maintenance?? It takes me a whopping ten minutes once or twice a year to change my engine oil. The used engine oil is cleaned and sold again as useful engine oil (some people heat their homes or garages with it!).
I can (and do) fix my own car if it happens to develop a problem (rare, since I take care of my cars) using my own tools, which are commonly available. Can't do THAT with an EV! They require dealer repair only! EXPENSIVE!
It only takes me a few minutes once a week to refuel my car. EV drivers are constantly worried about recharging their car. It's like watching a neurosis.
A Tesla Model 3 cannot tow anything. A Subaru Impreza, a car of similar size, can easily tow a loaded utility trailer (capable of carrying a riding mower), and costs 1/3 that of the Model 3.
I can also refuel a gasoline engine from a gas can. Can't do THAT with an EV!
People also go 'muddin' with gasoline engines. Can't do THAT with an EV!

Horses and buggies, BTW, are still used...mostly in tourist areas, and the horse has to wear diapers. Talk about city pollution! Horses were generally banned from cities because of the stench. Gasoline cars really took care of THAT problem! There are the Amish too, that still use them for daily transport. They tend to stay out of the cities and stay in their own communities. Cities don't want horses for serious practical reasons.

You know your shit, educate me on the potential for graphene batteries in terms I can easily follow.
 
You don't understand that climate change isn't manmade and we can't do shit to change it.

laughing-haha.gif



OMG, you are one of those loons are you?

Even most of the right has now acknowledged man's role in climate change and how we are impacting it.


You are in a shrinking pool of crazies who still are holding to this CP.
 
laughing-haha.gif

OMG, you are one of those loons are you?
Even most of the right has now acknowledged man's role in climate change and how we are impacting it.
You are in a shrinking pool of crazies who still are holding to this CP.

No, I'm one of those that doesn't buy the "IT'S CO2!" Lunacy. I'm sure human activity as some small impact on climate, but the focused idea it is one miniscule gas in the atmosphere is bullshit.
 
No, I'm one of those that doesn't buy the "IT'S CO2!" Lunacy. I'm sure human activity as some small impact on climate, but the focused idea it is one miniscule gas in the atmosphere is bullshit.

Because it would make no sense that will all the various forms of emissions humans create, that they would not be impactful, in any meaningful way, over time, on climate???


Are you that dumb? That you can smoke inside a sealed environment for long continuous periods of time and the build up won't have impact??
 
Because it would make no sense that will all the various forms of emissions humans create, that they would not be impactful, in any meaningful way, over time, on climate???
Are you that dumb? That you can smoke inside a sealed environment for long continuous periods of time and the build up won't have impact??

They have some impact, mostly minor to irrelevant. George Carlin was right...


As for smoking in a sealed environment, if I have a filtration system, it won't have an iota of impact. I would suggest electrostatic precipitation.
 
Last edited:
You know your shit, educate me on the potential for graphene batteries in terms I can easily follow.

Graphene is not a battery in and of itself nor an electron donor like lithium or sodium. It is one material that can be used as the ion medium (like the electrolyte of a solid state battery like Li-ion) for a variety of battery chemistries including, of course, Li-ion batteries. It also acts to separate the battery electrodes.
It does nothing to increase the storage capacity of the battery. That is determined by the electron donor material (the Lithium oxide, also the + terminal). This is set by the joules available per mole of lithium.

What it does do is extend the life (not the range) of the battery. Li-ion batteries have had a problem with little 'hairs' developing in the cathode and making their way through the separator. Then they touch, they effectively reduce the battery capacity by shorting out a small portion of the electrode. These 'hairs' act like resistors. They are not a dead short (which would of course cause a fire). As the battery goes through a charge/discharge cycle, more and more of these little 'hairs' develop, reducing the capacity of the battery more and more until the battery doesn't hold a useful charge at all.

Then a Li-ion cell is put through it's first charge/discharge cycle, it will lose about half of it's full capacity right then and there. This is done at the factory, and the end user doesn't see it. From that point on, capacity loss is stable and slow, giving the battery a practical life span of about 10 years.

Graphene replaces the graphite or ceramic separator commonly in use now. Because of it's structure, it can limit the growth of these 'hairs', and thus extend the number of years the battery can give practical service.

Charge rate of any battery is limited by the heat generated by moving ions through the electrolyte (or separator). These are bowling balls compared to BBs for the electrons. Moving them around heats the battery, making it warmer. If it gets hot enough, the battery will catch fire. Lithium will ignite at 180 deg C; fairly low.

BTW, sodium will ignite at room temperature...explosively if in contact with water. Graphene does not increase the charge rate of the battery or the available discharge rate of the battery. As it is, battery packs in EVs are liquid cooled...a radiator and everything. So are the motors.
 
They have some impact, mostly minor to irrelevant. George Carlin was right...

...

As for smoking in a sealed environment, if I have a filtration system, it won't have an iota of impact. I would suggest electrostatic precipitation.

Even big oil stopped denying what you still deny.

You are the sucker who not only gobbled up the PAID FOR propaganda that Big Oil admits to funding, but you still have not got the memo and still believe it, even as Big Oil is not longer denying it. FLOL.


Exxon knew of climate change in 1981, email says – but it funded deniers for 27 more years

...Exxon said on Wednesday that it now acknowledges the risk of climate change and does not fund climate change denial groups.

Some climate campaigners have likened the industry to the conduct of the tobacco industry which for decades resisted the evidence that smoking causes cancer.

In the email Bernstein, a chemical engineer and climate expert who spent 30 years at Exxon and Mobil and was a lead author on two of the United Nations’ blockbuster IPCC climate science reports, said climate change first emerged on the company’s radar in 1981, when the company was considering the development of south-east Asia’s biggest gas field, off Indonesia.

That was seven years ahead of other oil companies and the public, according to Bernstein’s account.

Climate change was largely confined to the realm of science until 1988, when the climate scientist James Hansen told Congress that global warming was caused by the buildup of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, due to the burning of fossil fuels.

By that time, it was clear that developing the Natuna site would set off a huge amount of climate change pollution – effectively a “carbon bomb”, according to Bernstein.

“When I first learned about the project in 1989, the projections were that if Natuna were developed and its CO2 vented to the atmosphere, it would be the largest point source of CO2 in the world and account for about 1% of projected global CO2 emissions. I’m sure that it would still be the largest point source of CO2, but since CO2 emissions have grown faster than projected in 1989, it would probably account for a smaller fraction of global CO2 emissions,” Bernstein wrote.

The email was written in response to an inquiry on business ethics from the Institute for Applied and Professional Ethics at Ohio University.

“What it shows is that Exxon knew years earlier than James Hansen’s testimony to Congress that climate change was a reality; that it accepted the reality, instead of denying the reality as they have done publicly, and to such an extent that it took it into account in their decision making, in making their economic calculation,” the director of the institute, Alyssa Bernstein (no relation), told the Guardian....
 
You don't understand that climate change isn't manmade and we can't do shit to change it.

Climate cannot change. There is no value associated with climate to change.
Climate has no temperature. It has no windspeed. It has no wind velocity. It has no measurement of any kind. There is no value that can change.

Climate is a subjective description only.

Weather changes.

QP! is being silly, trying to attach weather to health. People live everywhere from the hottest deserts to the coldest one (Antarctica). They live in humid jungles. They live in mountainous terrain. They live in the swamp. They live through some of the harshest winters on the planet and through some of the worst heat waves around. They are all healthy. The adaptability of Man to different environments is astounding...equaled only by grass.
 
No, I'm one of those that doesn't buy the "IT'S CO2!" Lunacy. I'm sure human activity as some small impact on climate, but the focused idea it is one miniscule gas in the atmosphere is bullshit.

NONE. Climate cannot change.
No gas or vapor can warm the Earth either. Not one iota. Not a single degree. The effect is ZERO. Nada. Nan. Zip. Absolutely NOTHING.
 
Even big oil stopped denying what you still deny.
This BS again? *sigh*. Bersnstein is not 'big oil'. He was a moron that once worked for Exxon and made a stupid public statement. He no longer works for Exxon, largely because he continued to be an idiot.
You are the sucker who not only gobbled up the PAID FOR propaganda that Big Oil admits to funding, but you still have not got the memo and still believe it, even as Big Oil is not longer denying it. FLOL.
It's not about 'big oil'. It's about theories of science you still continue to deny. No gas or vapor is capable of warming the Earth.

You still ignore the 1st law of thermodynamics. You cannot create energy out of nothing. E(t+1) = E(t)-U.
You still ignore the 2nd law of thermodynamics. You cannot trap heat. You cannot trap thermal energy. There is always heat. You cannot heat a warmer surface using a colder gas. e(t+1) >= e(t).
You still ignore the Stefan-Boltzmann law. You cannot trap light. You cannot prevent the conversion of thermal energy into light. r=C*e*t^4.
You still ignore statistical, probability, random number, and algebraic mathematics. It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth. It is not possible to measure the emissivity of Earth. It is not possible to measure the global sea level. It is not possible to measure the global atmospheric concentration of CO2. It is not possible to measure the pH of the ocean.

BTW, 'Big oil' saved the whales, not Greenpeace. Oil is also a renewable fuel.
 
Last edited:
Electric cars are on the rise – here’s why

As we look to make more sustainable choices in every aspect of our lives, electric cars are seeing exponential growth, with global sales up 55% in 2022 compared to the year before.
King Charles made history five years ago when he took delivery of the Royal Family’s first all-electric car, recently installing five charging points at Windsor Castle, while Prince Harry and Meghan Markle drove to their 2018 wedding reception in a 1968 Jaguar E-Type that had been retrofitted with an electric motor and battery.

Celebrity fans of electric vehicles include Leonardo DiCaprio, Ed Sheeran and Cameron Diaz.
As well as being kinder to the environment, electric cars can also be kinder on your wallet, with running costs lower than diesel or petrol models and incentives such as no road tax and a £3000 government grant for purchases costing less than £50,000.

Electric cars tend to be cheaper to maintain too, as the three main components and fewer moving parts mean that servicing is simpler – Nissan estimates that EV maintenance costs 40% lower than for traditional models.*
In addition to their instant benefits to the environment, electric cars also offer a realm of cutting-edge technology to ensure a comfortable and stress-free journey complete with all the mod cons.

Everybody wins. Even MAGA morons.

Ain't it great? BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
 
Because it would make no sense that will all the various forms of emissions humans create, that they would not be impactful, in any meaningful way, over time, on climate???


Are you that dumb? That you can smoke inside a sealed environment for long continuous periods of time and the build up won't have impact??

The effect is ZERO. NADA. None. Nan. Absolutely nothing.

No gas or vapor has the capability to warm the Earth.
Climate cannot change.
 
Even big oil stopped denying what you still deny.

You are the sucker who not only gobbled up the PAID FOR propaganda that Big Oil admits to funding, but you still have not got the memo and still believe it, even as Big Oil is not longer denying it. FLOL.

Repetition fallacy. You already said this. My response is the same.
Big Oil has nothing to do with the theories of science or the mathematics you choose to ignore.
 
B]SIZE=4]Electric cars are on the rise – here’s why[/SIZE][/B]
Two words: mandates and subsidies. In other words, fascism and communism.
As we look to make more sustainable choices in every aspect of our lives,
Fascism and communism are not sustainable. You are again ignoring the fact that oil and natural gas are renewable fuel, and that EVs must be charged.
electric cars are seeing exponential growth,
No, they aren't. Blatant lie.
with global sales up 55% in 2022 compared to the year before.
Blatant lie.
King Charles made history five years ago when he took delivery of the Royal Family’s first all-electric car, recently installing five charging points at Windsor Castle, while Prince Harry and Meghan Markle drove to their 2018 wedding reception in a 1968 Jaguar E-Type that had been retrofitted with an electric motor and battery.
Celebrity fans of electric vehicles include Leonardo DiCaprio, Ed Sheeran and Cameron Diaz.
Attempted proof by name dropping.
As well as being kinder to the environment,
They aren't.
electric cars can also be kinder on your wallet,
They aren't.
with running costs lower than diesel or petrol models
Blatant lie.
and incentives such as no road tax and a £3000 government grant for purchases costing less than £50,000.
Communism.
Electric cars tend to be cheaper to maintain too,
They aren't.
as the three main components and fewer moving parts mean that servicing is simpler
It isn't.
– Nissan estimates that EV maintenance costs 40% lower than for traditional models.*
Blatant lie.
In addition to their instant benefits to the environment,
They aren't.
electric cars also offer a realm of cutting-edge technology
40 year old technology is not 'cutting edge'.
to ensure a comfortable and stress-free journey complete with all the mod cons.
While you constantly worry about your next charge.
Everybody wins.
Not with EVs.
Even MAGA morons.
MAGA isn't a person nor a moron.
Ain't it great? BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
No. Communism sucks. Fascism sucks.
 
How 'modern-day slavery' in the Congo powers the rechargeable battery economy

gettyimages-1244417592_wide-10e9211eae633ef35b407191f82ed3d045befa8c-s900-c85.webp



"Kara says the mining industry has ravaged the landscape of the DRC. Millions of trees have been cut down, the air around mines is hazy with dust and grit, and the water has been contaminated with toxic effluents from the mining processing. What's more, he says, "Cobalt is toxic to touch and breathe — and there are hundreds of thousands of poor Congolese people touching and breathing it day in and day out. Young mothers with babies strapped to their backs, all breathing in this toxic cobalt dust."
 
Oil demand growth is set to significantly slow by 2028.

According to the International Energy Agency (IEA), the use of oil for transport will go into decline after 2026 thanks to the use of more electric vehicles, an increase in biofuels, and reduced consumption.

It predicted on Wednesday that demand growth in China is also forecast to slow from next year onwards, particularly as the rebound in demand after the pandemic subsides.
“The downturn in advanced economies renders the global outlook even more dependent on China’s post-COVID pandemic reopening being able to maintain its early momentum, which should eventually lift global trade and manufacturing,” the agency said,
It highlighted that Beijing’s “pent-up” consumption will peak mid-2023 after a 1.5 million-barrels-per-day rebound but lose momentum to just an average 290,000 barrels per day year-on-year from 2024 to 2028.
However, overall consumption is expected to be supported by strong petrochemicals demand, its new medium-term report said. Consumption in 2024 will grow at half the rate seen in the prior two years, it added.
Read more: FTSE 100: Shell to cut spending and raise dividends
Higher prices, and concerns about security of supply after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, will also speed the shift towards cleaner energy technologies and away from fossil fuels.
The IEA has forecast that global oil demand will rise by 6% between 2022 and 2028 to reach 105.7 million barrels per day, amid robust demand from the petrochemical and aviation sectors.
But annual demand growth is expected to shrink from 2.4 million barrels per day this year, to just 0.4 million per day in 2028.
“The shift to a clean energy economy is picking up pace, with a peak in global oil demand in sight before the end of this decade as electric vehicles, energy efficiency and other technologies advance,” IEA executive director Fatih Birol said.
She added that oil producers need to pay “careful attention to the gathering pace of change” and calibrate their investment decisions accordingly, to “ensure an orderly transition.”

Joey wets panties,

Used EV prices plunge, unsold new EVs languish on lots

Are EV deniers right? Is the world just not ready for the EV-olution? Though the federal government is supporting an electric-vehicle future and several automakers have made pledges to go all-electric by such-and-such date, the general public doesn’t seem to be buying it. Literally. Recent reports from iSeeCars.com and Axios tell an interesting story of plunging EV prices and unsold cars piling up on dealer lots.
 
Back
Top