Zelenskyy now says he will sign the deal...

[Diogenes]

The U.S. and NATO Helped Trigger the Ukraine War. It’s Not ‘Siding With Putin’ to Admit It
​

It has become especially fashionable in some circles to insist that NATO’s expansion to Russia’s border was in no way responsible for the current Ukraine crisis.

Many dismiss all arguments to the contrary as “echoing Putin’s talking points,” “siding with Putin,” or circulating Russian propaganda and “disinformation.” Leaving aside the ugly miasma of McCarthyism enveloping such allegations, the underlying argument is factually wrong.

Russian leaders and several Western policy experts were warning more than two decades ago that NATO expansion would turn out badly—ending in a new cold war with Russia at best, and a hot one at worst.

Obviously, they were not “echoing” Putin or anyone else.

George Kennan, the intellectual architect of America’s containment policy during the Cold War, perceptively warned in a May 2, 1998 failing New York Times interview what NATO’s move eastward would set in motion. “I think it is the beginning of a new cold war,” he stated. “I think the Russians will gradually react quite adversely and it will affect their policies. I think it is a tragic mistake.”




More humiliation for Salty Walty @ link:

https://www.cato.org/commentary/us-nato-helped-trigger-ukraine-war-its-not-siding-putin-admit-it

 

[Walt]

Salty

Nothing of any value ever comes from you.

 

[Diogenes]

Nothing of any value ever comes from you.

Much amusement ensues from your retarded posts, Salty Walty.

My 11 year old niece laughs her head off at them.

 

[Walt]

When you have no cards, you fold, Walter.

Yes, you fold. You stop putting money in the pot. You walk away. You do not pay more money for losing. Losing is free.

Zelenskyy is not going to pay trump for losing. He can do that on his own.

Our president, who has access to classified information

trump also has a history of believing the lies Putin tells him over American intelligence services.

 

[Teflon Don]

Zelenskyy Says He’ll Sign Minerals Deal And Urges US To ‘Stand More Firmly’ For Ukraine After Oval Office Clash

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy posted a lengthy thread on X Saturday, stating he would sign the minerals deal, but said the Ukrainian people “need to know that America is on our side.”

www.forbes.com

I haven't chimed in on this... but need to. As someone that worked in Naval Intelligence in this very arena that meeting did not make me feel safer or want to cheer on how "tough" either of them was acting.

I was hopeful that something could be done to get it signed though. Having interests there gives the US incentive to help, add security, and to actually maintain a presence depending on how the "peace" looks afterward. Telling them they are "on their own" like that was not quite what I was expecting. Zelenskyy and Trump in a penis measuring contest... <smh>...

That being said, it looks like we may have a path back to the deal.

I read that Zelensky met with democrats like Susan Rice and our friend Vindman prior to the Oval Office meeting and they were the ones who gave him the shitty advice to taunt Trump. I seem to remember democrats at one point screaming about the Logan Act?

Nevertheless, Zelensky has no choice but to take Trump's offer. While all of these countries in Europe can Tweet that they "stand with Ukraine", only the US has the juice and they know it.

Trump is ending this war and we should get something in return. I seem to also recall a time when democrats were against us getting into foreign entanglements unless there was an "imminent threat" to us? Remember that?

Good times

 

[Diogenes]

I read that Zelensky met with democrats like Susan Rice and our friend Vindman prior to the Oval Office meeting and they were the ones who gave him the shitty advice to taunt Trump. I seem to remember democrats at one point screaming about the Logan Act?

Nevertheless, Zelensky has no choice but to take Trump's offer. While all of these countries in Europe can Tweet that they "stand with Ukraine", only the US has the juice and they know it.

Trump is ending this war and we should get something in return. I seem to also recall a time when democrats were against us getting into foreign entanglements unless there was an "imminent threat" to us? Remember that?

Good times

Excellent, TD.

 

[Earl]

No, Salty Walty, not almost all of the aid the U.S. sent to Ukraine was weaponry—it's more of a mixed bag, with a significant chunk being military equipment but also a hefty dose of cash and other support.

Let’s break it down with the latest numbers.

Since Russia’s full-scale invasion in February 2022, the U.S. has committed around $119.7 billion in total aid to Ukraine through December 2024, according to the Kiel Institutes' Ukraine Support Tracker.

Of that, military aid—think weapons, ammo, and training—accounts for about $65.9 billion, per the State Department’s January 2025 figures.

That’s roughly 55% of the total.

The rest, around $53.8 billion, includes financial (cash) and humanitarian aid, like direct budget support and help for refugees.

So, weaponry doesn’t come close to “almost all.”

Digging deeper, the military aid itself isn’t just cash handed over for Kyiv to buy guns.

Still, some military aid does involve cash—like $1.6 billion in Foreign Military Financing grants.

On the non-military side, the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) has pumped over $23 billion into "economic and humanitarian efforts" since mid-2023 alone.

This includes $20 billion in direct budget support—cold, hard cash—to pay Ukrainian civil servants, fund pensions, and keep the government running. That’s not weaponry; it’s straight-up financial support.

Posters like Salty Walty often exaggerate, claiming it’s all “weapons”.


@Grok

"The rest, around $53.8 billion, includes financial (cash) and humanitarian aid, like direct budget support and help for refugees.

So, weaponry doesn’t come close to “almost all.”

A few billion here, a few billion there and pretty soon, you are talking big money.

Poor Walter is wrong again.

Walter is beginning to sound like a warmonger.

Will he volunteer to fight in Ukraine?

 

[BartenderElite]

I read that Zelensky met with democrats like Susan Rice and our friend Vindman prior to the Oval Office meeting and they were the ones who gave him the shitty advice to taunt Trump. I seem to remember democrats at one point screaming about the Logan Act?

Nevertheless, Zelensky has no choice but to take Trump's offer. While all of these countries in Europe can Tweet that they "stand with Ukraine", only the US has the juice and they know it.

Trump is ending this war and we should get something in return. I seem to also recall a time when democrats were against us getting into foreign entanglements unless there was an "imminent threat" to us? Remember that?

Good times

Re: the bolded. Yes - that is true. We should only COMMIT OUR MILITARY when there is an imminent threat.

We're giving aid to the Ukraine in their fight. We're not putting Americans in harm's way.

Hope that helps.

 

[Walt]

Salty... My 11 year old niece laughs her head off at them.

Wow, that is some sick stuff. You are talking about my supposedly "salty semen", and your showed that to your 11 year old niece. Off the charts sick.

 

[Diogenes]

Wow, that is some sick stuff. You are talking about my supposedly "salty semen", and your showed that to your 11 year old niece. Off the charts sick.

12b, Salty Walty?

 

[Stone]

Okay - you just lost this debate.

Sorry 'bout that.

Sure didn't. So again I ask....Why does Z always wear Military style fatigues in front of the cameras? Why is that exactly?

 

[martin]

Let’s break it down with the latest numbers.

Since Russia’s full-scale invasion in February 2022, the U.S. has committed around $119.7 billion in total aid to Ukraine through December 2024, according to the Kiel Institutes' Ukraine Support Tracker.

The EU has committed more.

 

[Walt]

The rest, around $53.8 billion, includes financial (cash) and humanitarian aid, like direct budget support and help for refugees.

So the weapons and training is completely impossible to just "skim off the top". The humanitarian aid is not under the Ukrainian control, so again could not be "skimmed off the top." The whole claim is beyond suspect.

 

[BartenderElite]

Sure didn't. So again I ask....Why does Z always wear Military style fatigues in front of the cameras? Why is that exactly?

Who gives a fuck?

And yes - when you invoke Hitler in such a completely inappropriate comparison, you LOSE.

 

[Walt]

Salty

How would you know how salty my semen is?

 

[Earl]

So the weapons and training is completely impossible to just "skim off the top". The humanitarian aid is not under the Ukrainian control, so again could not be "skimmed off the top." The whole claim is beyond suspect.

To simplify it for you, Walter, you were wrong...as usual.

 

[FastLane]

Zelenskyy Says He’ll Sign Minerals Deal And Urges US To ‘Stand More Firmly’ For Ukraine After Oval Office Clash

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy posted a lengthy thread on X Saturday, stating he would sign the minerals deal, but said the Ukrainian people “need to know that America is on our side.”

www.forbes.com

I haven't chimed in on this... but need to. As someone that worked in Naval Intelligence in this very arena that meeting did not make me feel safer or want to cheer on how "tough" either of them was acting.

I was hopeful that something could be done to get it signed though. Having interests there gives the US incentive to help, add security, and to actually maintain a presence depending on how the "peace" looks afterward. Telling them they are "on their own" like that was not quite what I was expecting. Zelenskyy and Trump in a penis measuring contest... <smh>...

That being said, it looks like we may have a path back to the deal.

Zelensky played his cards and Trump's cards Trumped him.

Zelensky had promised to sign the deal before and didn't. Maybe the next time he will sign. Ukraine needs the economic boost and we need the mineral security and should get our money back. Ukraine getting closer to America economically is a good thing for Ukrainians

 

[Stone]

Who gives a fuck?

And yes - when you invoke Hitler in such a completely inappropriate comparison, you LOSE.

Nope. Only in your mind.

 

[Diogenes]

Salty Walty's puerile ranting is ridiculously risible, as even my 11 year old niece can tell.

Since 2014, when big-eared buffoon B. Hussein Obama bungled the Crimean question, Ukraine has been in the throes of civil war between the Ukrainian majority in the west, and the Russian minority concentrated in the east.

The Ukrainian side was predictably co-opted by the supranational global imperial monolith NATO.

NATO, in case you didn't know, is the "war face" of the cabal of western effetes that has tried to determine political, medical and cultural orthodoxy across the world, usually with disastrous consequences, and oafishly ignorant intellectually-unqualified support from benighted binary thinkers like supremely silly simpleton Salty Walty.

The self-anointed "experts" control not only all major political parties in most western countries, but also global international consortia from the useless United Nations to the World Economic Forum, to the European Union to the aforementioned NATO.

Their gormless goon-like goal under fugue-state figurehead braindead Biden was to squeeze Russia (on whom they rely for the energy that their people need to live) by turning Ukraine – including the two Russian-speaking eastern separatist regions – into another puppet proxy.

But they failed to understand the disastrous depths of diplomatic dithering and duplicity that devious Democrats like Salty Walty would plumb in order to pump up their party's chances in the coming midterms.

 

[BartenderElite]

Nope. Only in your mind.

We'll agree to disagree on that. If you think it's perfectly appropriate to compare Zelensky to Hitler, that's your thing.

But just a reminder: Trump got triggered at that meeting because Z dared to suggest that Putin wasn't trustworthy.

Think about that.