What does the New Testament say about homosexuality? Short answer: "Nothing"

Cypress said:
I've listened to Frank Turek, PhD - a well regarded conservative evangelical Christian theologian and apologist - and he states that nothing from Exodus to Deuteronomy technically applies to Christians.
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I believe that is what Dispensationalism is all about. It's not necessarily in the Bible, per se, but I believe one of the early Church Fathers inferred it and kicked off the concept of "Dispensations".

What does Dr. Turek say about the 10 Commandments since they are in the books he said no longer apply to Christians?


 
Cypress said:
I'm saying Frank Turek - a PhD seminary-educated evangelical and highly esteemed Christian apologist - is right about Torah's relationship to Christianity, and you are wrong.
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If Dr. Turek is right then does he merely throw away the Mattthew quote because the book has been interpretted to be aimed at a Jewish audience?

Is the thinking that the man who is the CENTER of the faith of Christianity himself still held the Jews to Torah Laws but was OK with the people who followed him NOT following the Torah Laws?
 
Turek also appears to have coauthored a book called "I don't have enough faith to be an atheist". That shows an astounding lack of knowledge of his subject.

He's also an advocate for Intelligent Design (a trojan horse for Creationism in the schools).

He argues that same-sex marriage is physically harmful.

While I don't want to do an ad hominem here, I'm less inclined to believe his exegeses if I don't think he shows anything like a realistic or balanced approach to other topics adjacent to it.
 
gmark77 said:
If Dr. Turek is right then does he merely throw away the Mattthew quote because the book has been interpretted to be aimed at a Jewish audience?

Is the thinking that the man who is the CENTER of the faith of Christianity himself still held the Jews to Torah Laws but was OK with the people who followed him NOT following the Torah Laws?
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Matthew was writing for a Jewish audience. No one, not Jesus, not Paul, not Peter told Jews to bail out on the Torah.

Jesus never addressed the question about whether gentiles should be judged by the Mosaic laws and rituals of Torah.

That question was settled long after Jesus died, primarily by Paul and the Pauline tradition.
 
Cypress said:
Matthew was writing for a Jewish audience. No one, not Jesus, not Paul, ever Peter told Jews to bail out on the Torah.
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But you WILL agree that Jesus is speaking in Matthew to people who may follow his teachings, correct? So you are saying that Jesus wanted the Jews to follow the Torah Laws but his followers didn't have to?

Cypress said:
Jesus never addressed the question about whether gentiles should be judged by the Mosaic laws and rituals of Torah.
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So did the son of God not know that he was starting a movement that would overtake most of the civilized world?

Cypress said:
That question was settled long after Jesus died, primarily by Paul and the Pauline tradition.
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Yes, by people who weren't Jesus.
 
Cypress said:
I'm saying Frank Turek - a PhD seminary-educated evangelical and highly esteemed Christian apologist - is right about Torah's relationship to Christianity, and you are wrong.
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Thanks for your opinion.

I'm still waiting for you to show where I said the torah should be central to Christianity or whatever that retarded claim you made was.
 
gmark77 said:
But you WILL agree that Jesus is speaking in Matthew to people who may follow his teachings, correct? So you are saying that Jesus wanted the Jews to follow the Torah Laws but his followers didn't have to?
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Correct, Jesus was speaking to Jews in the Gospel of Matthew, and I would be shocked if anyone actually believed that Jesus would tell his fellow Jews to just casually ditch the Torah.
gmark77 said:
So did the son of God not know that he was starting a movement that would overtake most of the civilized world?


Yes, by people who weren't Jesus.
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Jesus never gave instructions on whether Gentiles should be judged by Torah. He only had limited contact with gentiles in Tyre and Sidon.

Jesus explicitly left it to his disciples to carry the message to the world. And he did not give them specific instructions on how to do it, he stated he would send the holy spirit to guide them. So people who "weren't Jesus" were nevertheless guided by the holy spirit, according to tradition.

This is basically first year seminary school knowledge.
 
Cypress said:
Ron Miller, professor of religious studies, Lake Forest College:

It is important to remember that there was no general word for same-sex relations in Greek vocabulary at the time the New Testament authors were writing. A word inclusive of all same-sex relations does not occur in any language until the nineteenth century. So, the shortest and, strictly speaking, most accurate answer to the question “What does the bible say about homosexuality?” is “Nothing”. The current English-language Bibles translating these words as “homosexuals” are thus both incorrect and misleading.

If Paul intended to refer to same-sex relations in using the terms found in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, then he was making an unwarranted generalization. The emphasis of the passage is clearly on deliberate, destructive behavior, not on one’s personal sexual preferences. We know of no instance where Jesus or Paul dealt with a loving, committed same-sex couple and therefore have no solid basis for conjecturing about their possible views of such a relationship.
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No one needs Christ's word on it that you're quite content with owning the fact that you're a queer, an that you praise the fact
that leftists are quite content (in fact giddy) over having drag queen loons show off their privates in front of elementary school
children, and like a couple of nutcases at this forum who proudly sport their gay pride flags.
 
Yakuda said:
Thanks for your opinion.

I'm still waiting for you to show where I said the torah should be central to Christianity or whatever that retarded claim you made was.
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You cited the authority of Exodus as a set of rules or laws Christians have to adhere to.

Are you aware Exodus is one of the five books of the Torah?

The five books of Torah are reference material for the New Testament and for Christians. They are not proscriptive.
 
Jesus never said anything about it being bad to shit in a pot of stew, either, so I guess that is not only okay but in fact a requirement, at least according to the idiot 'logic' from mentally ill sexual deviants here.
 
So, tell us which laws from Exodus Christians are being told to ignore and violate in the NT, again?


AI Overview

The book of Exodus contains several laws and commandments given to the Israelites, including the famous Ten Commandments and the Book of the Covenant. These laws cover a wide range of topics, from religious observances to social conduct, and are foundational to both Jewish and Christian traditions.


Key Laws and Commandments from Exodus:
Found in Exodus 20, these are a set of moral and religious principles that form the basis of the covenant between God and the Israelites.


Found in Exodus 21-23, this section contains a variety of laws dealing with slavery, personal injury, property rights, and religious obligations.


Exodus 21 includes regulations concerning the servitude of Hebrew slaves, emphasizing the importance of just treatment and eventual release.


Specific laws detail the consequences for causing harm to others, including provisions for restitution and punishment.


Regulations cover theft, damage to property, and the responsibility of caring for the possessions of others.


Exodus includes laws regarding sacrifices, festivals, and the construction of the tabernacle, highlighting the importance of worship and ritual.


The book also contains moral laws addressing issues such as murder, theft, and honesty, emphasizing the importance of ethical behavior.


Regulations cover inheritance, marriage, and divorce, outlining social structures and relationships.


Exodus includes laws related to civil order, such as those concerning theft, inheritance, and penal laws.


These laws are not just a set of rules, but a framework for a just and righteous society, reflecting God's character and will for his people. They serve as a guide for both individual conduct and social order, aiming to create a community that reflects God's love and justice.
 
EdwinA said:
So, tell us
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Us? Do you have multiple personality disorder?

EdwinA said:
which laws from Exodus Christians are being told to ignore and violate in the NT, again?

AI Overview
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please write in your own words, without using an AI copy/paste as a crutch
EdwinA said:
The book of Exodus contains several laws and commandments given to the Israelites, including the famous Ten Commandments and the Book of the Covenant. These laws cover a wide range of topics, from religious observances to social conduct, and are foundational to both Jewish and Christian traditions.


Key Laws and Commandments from Exodus:
Found in Exodus 20, these are a set of moral and religious principles that form the basis of the covenant between God and the Israelites.


Found in Exodus 21-23, this section contains a variety of laws dealing with slavery, personal injury, property rights, and religious obligations.


Exodus 21 includes regulations concerning the servitude of Hebrew slaves, emphasizing the importance of just treatment and eventual release.


Specific laws detail the consequences for causing harm to others, including provisions for restitution and punishment.


Regulations cover theft, damage to property, and the responsibility of caring for the possessions of others.


Exodus includes laws regarding sacrifices, festivals, and the construction of the tabernacle, highlighting the importance of worship and ritual.


The book also contains moral laws addressing issues such as murder, theft, and honesty, emphasizing the importance of ethical behavior.


Regulations cover inheritance, marriage, and divorce, outlining social structures and relationships.


Exodus includes laws related to civil order, such as those concerning theft, inheritance, and penal laws.


These laws are not just a set of rules, but a framework for a just and righteous society, reflecting God's character and will for his people. They serve as a guide for both individual conduct and social order, aiming to create a community that reflects God's love and justice.
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Galatians specifically articulates that Torah was a temporary covenant which is superseded for gentiles by the gospel and Pauline tradition.

Both Jesus and Paul said the moral laws of Torah are fulfilled by following Jesus ' two commandments to love God and love your neighbors as yourself. That practice itself covers all the prohibitions on murder, theft, adultery, cheating, etc.

It is remarkable that you copied and pasted Google AI's text of the Torah's civil and ritual rules for animal sacrifice, Jewish divorce regulations, property, as if that was a convincing argument that Christians have to lead a Torah-based life.
 
Cypress said:
You cited the authority of Exodus as a set of rules or laws Christians have to adhere to.

Are you aware Exodus is one of the five books of the Torah?

The five books of Torah are reference material for the New Testament and for Christians. They are not proscriptive.
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AGAIN cite where I said the Torah was central to Christianity
 
Cypress said:
Us? Do you have multiple personality disorder?


please write in your own words, without using an AI copy/paste as a crutch

Galatians specifically articulates that Torah was a temporary covenant which is superseded for gentiles by the gospel and Pauline tradition.

Both Jesus and Paul said the moral laws of Torah are fulfilled by following Jesus ' two commandments to love God and love your neighbors as yourself. That practice itself covers all the prohibitions on murder, theft, adultery, cheating, etc.

It is remarkable that you copied and pasted Google AI's text of the Torah's civil and ritual rules for animal sacrifice, Jewish divorce regulations, property, as if that was a convincing argument that Christians have to lead a Torah-based life.
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So you still don't have shit. that's because you've never actually read either the Old or the New Testaments. And then you snivel about using AI, when your own babblings come from a some guy you read, what's-his-name, TurkeyButt or something. lol hilarious.
 
Cypress said:
Jesus explicitly left it to his disciples to carry the message to the world. And he did not give them specific instructions on how to do it, he stated he would send the holy spirit to guide them. So people who "weren't Jesus" were nevertheless guided by the holy spirit, according to tradition.
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So Jesus knew his message would go forward via his followers but his message seems to be that not one jot or tittle of the law would pass before the earth passed.

And you think his message was better presented by Paul who seemed to disagree about the primacy of the OT laws?

What role does Jesus play in Christianity then?
 
gmark77 said:
So Jesus knew his message would go forward via his followers but his message seems to be that not one jot or tittle of the law would pass before the earth passed.

And you think his message was better presented by Paul who seemed to disagree about the primacy of the OT laws?

What role does Jesus play in Christianity then?
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Actually both said Jews were still bound by their laws, as part of their covenants, while gentiles were not part of that covenant but bound by the universal covenant of his mission. It's not hard or complex, its just that some need to rewrite it to mean what they want it to instead of what it is.

Judaism was never about a specific race. Monotheism itself implies universalism, and the tribes before Ezra intermarried with other tribes. That didn't make them any less 'Jewish'. According to Exodus, many other peoples left Egyptian bondage with the Hebrews, hundred of thousands of them. They went somewhere, too, and Exodus never says they went somewhere different than the Hebrews did.

There were no major prophets after the Babylonian Exile. That by itself is significant. The 2nd Temple cult was a false one. So was the social order imposed on Jews by the Babylonian cultists, the Sadducee and the Temple priesthood.
 
EdwinA said:
So you still don't have shit. that's because you've never actually read either the Old or the New Testaments. And then you snivel about using AI, when your own babblings come from a some guy you read, what's-his-name, TurkeyButt or something. lol hilarious.
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Anymouse whines a lot.
 
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