If God were real, you wouldn’t need a book

[Cypress]

I'm not saying to remove the historical event from existence. Jesus life, to whatever degree it is accurately reflected in the Bible, still happened in my scenario. However, despite the fact that, according to Christians, Jesus and God still exist in a very literal manner and are directly active in the lives of Christians and directly influence worldly events on a daily basis. Jesus/God influence outcomes, cause things to happen or prevent things from happening.

You can't magically remove the historical claims about Jesus and then go on to make any statements about Christianity.

On the other hand, without the historical Jesus there still would have been a belief in some type of god or providential authority, either through the Jewish tradition or any of the other myriad human spiritual traditions.

Yet, despite those claims, without the Bible and memories of believers, there is no reason to believe that a belief in christianity would ever recreate itself.

I don't think anyone on this thread claimed that if you waved a magic wand and magically removed Jesus from history, Christianity would just reconstitute itself.

History is not like math or science.

 

[Cypress]

its a call for reciprocity!

You're basing morality on self-interest. Reciprocity is the expectation you will be paid back for certain actions.

Self-interest is not morality. Even ants and prairie dogs practice some type of social cooperation for mutual benefit.

 

[Freddy Figbottom]

You're basing morality on self-interest.

Self-interest is not morality. Even ants and prairie dogs practice some type of social cooperation for mutual benefit.

morality is self interest for both parties.

 

[Truth Detector]

A short little Youtube from a former evangelical pastor. Did the fire and brimstone shit for decades until he finally came to his senses. For those of you who are in denial or wish to remain willfully ignorant, he basically says this:

“Christians go in with their god as an assumption rather than a conclusion. When in fact, after close examination, the virgin birth falls apart, the resurrection falls apart, the basis of morality falls apart, the promise of afterlife fizzles into fear based marketing.”

“The gods of Islam, of Judaism, of Christianity only exist in scripture. If they actually existed, we wouldn’t need the books to claim they did. Once the book fails, the god goes with it.”

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/gI_OCjTkQG4?si=cyukCFBlj2u2kI4k

"If God were real, you wouldn’t need a book"

That has to be one of the dumbest and most ignorant claim I have ever seen.



Dumb

Obsessed

Mendacious

Egotistical

Rude

76 IQ

 

[Truth Detector]

I would dearly love to meet a person who, without ever hearing of the Bible or any details of Christianity, who could come up with the concepts behind Christianity without reliance on the Bible or Christian writings. Just from "first principles".

Any religion for that matter.

I would rather hear from Godless morons how they think humans are born with morality. That would be a hoot.

 

[Truth Detector]

That can’t happen. It took thousands of people a couple thousand years to concoct the bullshit we see today.

Even if they were made aware of the concept of the resurrection, Christianity’s keystone, a reasonable mind would reject it outright.

.....it's bullshit.....dontchyaknow.....

Dumb

Obsessed

Mendacious

Egotistical

Rude

76 IQ

 

[Freddy Figbottom]

I would rather hear from Godless morons how they think humans are born with morality. That would be a hoot.

I do think we have an instinct for cooperation that is greater than lesser species, though there are social animals that also benefit from morality or cooperation.

 

[Diesel]

The only one triggered her is you. You have been foul-mouthed and intentionally insulting throughout this thread.

Most of the people starting threads about religion in this subforum are atheists. This thread was started by an atheist. If atheists start threads about religion is no one supposed to comment? Or just agree with what they said?

My thread contributions recently to this religion subforum have been about atheist books, or about corruption and malfeasance committed by churches and Bible thumpers.

I am "foul mouthed", yes. I don't believe in "swear words" because I'm fluent in Asian languages. We didn't do that Puritanical thing where we invented words that can't be used. Tell me more about logic.

Also, I haven't been intentionally insulting "throughout this thread". Just part of it.

I grow weary of your allergy to truth and your inability to state it.

 

[Truth Detector]

Humans perceived a providential origin in the design of nature or they wanted to believe in one? What evidence is there of a god?

A better question is what evidence is there that you have a brain?

 

[ZenMode]

You can't magically remove the historical claims about Jesus and then go on to make any statements about Christianity.

On the other hand, without the historical Jesus there still would have been a belief in some type of god or providential authority, either through the Jewish tradition or any of the other myriad human spiritual traditions.

I don't think anyone on this thread claimed that if you waved a magic wand and magically removed Jesus from history, Christianity would just reconstitute itself.

History is not like math or science.

Again, I'm not removing Jesus from history.

Not counting the Bible and stories being passed from generation to generation, is there any evidence for Jesus and the Christian God today?

If Jesus life still happened, and the Christian God still existed as Christians believe he does today, but all writings and memories were erased, is there anything that would cause people to re-believe in Jesus or the Christian God that is supposedly active in our lives on a daily basis?

 

[gmark77]

I would rather hear from Godless morons how they think humans are born with morality. That would be a hoot.

Animals are born with all manner of instincts.

Social animals have an added component: social interaction for improved survival. That's what a social animal is. It's why humans even exist. Alone we are quick meal on the savannah. In groups we are the top predator.

 

[Freddy Figbottom]

I am "foul mouthed", yes. I don't believe in "swear words" because I'm fluent in Asian languages. We didn't do that Puritanical thing where we invented words that can't be used. Tell me more about logic.

Also, I haven't been intentionally insulting "throughout this thread". Just part of it.

I grow weary of your allergy to truth and your inability to state it.

but you have to admit that phonetic spelling and only 26 characters is better than little pictographs for every damn word.

admit it, Chinkenstein.

 

[Freddy Figbottom]

Again, I'm not removing Jesus from history.

Not counting the Bible and stories being passed from generation to generation, is there any evidence for Jesus and the Christian God today?

If Jesus life still happened, and the Christian God still existed as Christians believe he does today, but all writings and memories were erased, is there anything that would cause people to re-believe in Jesus or the Christian God that is supposedly active in our lives on a daily basis?

think of it this way,

the benefits of morality are continually self-evident.

 

[goat]

living morally and cooperating is obviously the best way to live.

cooperating instead wasting resources fighting is just obvious.

this common sense perception doesn't require a book.

The story of Cain and Abel tells us the best way to live is by sacrificing the first born. That's a waste of resources to me.

 

[domer76]

Animals are born with all manner of instincts.

Social animals have an added component: social interaction for improved survival. That's what a social animal is. It's why humans even exist. Alone we are quick meal on the savannah. In groups we are the top predator.

That’s EXACTLY how we survived so that we’re here today. Our developed brains are our superior evolutionary tool. Without that brain, we wouldn’t be here talking about ourselves.

 

[Into the Night]

Nonsense - an Atheist seeks to force all to follow their faith. Atheists demand there is no possibility of any god save themselves.

Atheists have no faith. It is not a religion.

You are describing the Church of No God, a fundamentalist style religion.

 

[Into the Night]

Science is based on repeatable observations.

Science is not an observation or data. Observations are not a proof. All observation is subject to the problems of phenomenology.

The world is made of number,

The world is made of dirt (most of it molten).

so it's a guarantee that humans would rediscover math.

Math is not 'discovered'. It was invented.

We are literally surrounded by the quantifiable and the countable.

Oh? What is the quantity of thought?

The intellectual foundation of Christianity is based on a historical claim: the life, death and resurrection of the historical person Jesus of Nazareth.

Nope. It's also based on following the teachings of God and Christ.
Satan knows of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Does that make him a Christian?

History is different from science and math.

Science has a history. Mathematics has a history. Personally, I find the history of science fascinating.

It's not repeatable. It's a unique event

Science is not an event. Mathematics is not an event.

You get rid of Jesus from history, you eliminate Christianity.

You can't get rid of Jesus Christ.

This isn't some profound revelation.

It's not a revelation at all.

 

[Into the Night]

Why would it happen once but not again?

You can't go back in time.

 

[Into the Night]

I do not "believe in" any gods...but why do you suppose such a belief "irrational?

He doesn't know what the word 'irrational' means. To him, it's just a buzzword.

 

[Into the Night]

The most important question of all actually is: What is the true nature of the REALITY of existence?

Go study phenomenology, a branch of philosophy.

The questions "Is there at least one GOD?" and "What is/are its nature?...are merely pieces of it.

What is YOUR answer to the question you posed? Is there a God?...which I prefer posed as, Is there at least one GOD?

Unknown. There is evidence there is, and there is evidence there isn't.