Antifa, not just an idea but a bunch of terrorists

[QP!]

I don't think anyone has said that every person who says they are Antifa are terrorists, that is where your disconnect lies. We simply recognize that Antifa Terrorists exist and plan to continue to call them what they are.

Trump and Magats, and Terry just above make ZERO DISTINCTION. All of Antifa is guilty.

Terry names a few groups (as i can do in Christianity) such as Torch Network and then says just upthread that it is the ideology of Antifa that is guilty, so you the only part you got correct is that you do 'not think'.

 

[Damocles]

Trump and Magats, and Terry just above make ZERO DISTINCTION. All of Antifa is guilty.

Terry names a few groups (as i can do in Christianity) such as Torch Network and then says just upthread that it is the ideology of Antifa that is guilty, so you the only part you got correct is that you do 'not think'.

I think it is because Antifa is an organized group who call themselves Antifa, that group commits violence. So they get labeled. While other groups try to jump on that wagon, it isn't an "ideology" it is an actual organization. Non hierarchical and decentralized, but it exists.

 

[Damocles]

The Order calls themselves "The Order"... If they also say they are Christian they would be Christian Terrorists but we would call them The Order... because that is what they have named themselves.

Antifa calls themselves Antifa, they have a brand, organize, and commit violence (sometimes just parades)... We simply call them what they call themselves. Being leftist doesn't make you Antifa. Walking in a parade with some Antifa folk doesn't make you Antifa, it isn't an ideology, it is an organization.

 

[QP!]

Christianity is not an organization, Antifa is an organization. If they called themselves something different we'd use that name. Like "Army of God"...

How do you define an organization that Christianity would not be one?

Terry had provided the names of some groups that act UNDER the ideology of Anti Fascism just as i provided the name of groups that act under the ideology of Christianity.

But go ahead... define what Christianity is then if not an organization and tell us what are the characteristics that you are using to define it.

 

[Damocles]

How do you define an organization that Christianity would not be one?

Terry had provided the names of some groups that act UNDER the ideology of Anti Fascism just as i provided the name of groups that act under the ideology of Christianity.

But go ahead... define what Christianity is then if not an organization and tell us what are the characteristics that you are using to define it.

Christianity is a belief system, but not "an organization", which organization is Christianity? Is it the Catholics? Now that is an organization. Is it the Pentecostal churches? Those are organizations but they are not Christianity. Christianity is an overarching belief system that spans many organizations. Like leftism.

Antifa is Antifa, they are an organization. They have websites, aps, flags, symbols that they define this group with... leftist ideology is part of what defines them, but it is not them... Lefitsm would be the ideology, Antifa is like the Pentecostal Churches, there is no centralized Pentecostal organization that you have to belong to to become a Pentecostal Church... but they are definitely an organization, just not centralized or hierarchical.

 

[QP!]

I think it is because Antifa is an organized group who call themselves Antifa, that group commits violence. So they get labeled. While other groups try to jump on that wagon, it isn't an "ideology" it is an actual organization. Non hierarchical and decentralized, but it exists.

No you do not think. You never do.

if it was an 'organized group' you would be able to identify its leadership or address.

As with all ideologies they have may have groups who support or oppose them. Who are lawful or lawless.

Under Christianity you have Army of God and others and we call them criminal or terrorist but we do NOT call Christianity criminal or terrorist because those non heirarchial or decentralized groups exist under it.

We do not do that as it would be stupid. Stop being stupid Damo.

 

[QP!]

Christianity is a belief system, but not "an organization", which organization is Christianity? Is it the Catholics? Now that is an organization. Is it the Pentecostal churches? Those are organizations but they are not Christianity. Christianity is an overarching belief system that spans many organizations. Like leftism.

Antifa is Antifa, they are an organization. They have websites, aps, flags, symbols that they define this group with... leftist ideology is part of what defines them, but it is not them... Lefitsm would be the ideology, Antifa is like the Pentecostal Churches, there is no centralized Pentecostal organization that you have to belong to to become a Pentecostal Church... but they are definitely an organization, just not centralized or hierarchical.

Which organization is the entire Antifascist movement?

Do you not think i can post links to Christianity web sites. one with flags, aps, symbols? We went thru this already i showed you how stupid you were being with this point.

 

[Damocles]

No you do not think. You never do.

if it was an 'organized group' you would be able to identify its leadership or address.

As with all ideologies they have may have groups who support or oppose them. Who are lawful or lawless.

Under Christianity you have Army of God and others and we call them criminal or terrorist but we do NOT call Christianity criminal or terrorist because those non heirarchial or decentralized groups exist under it.

We do not do that as it would be stupid. Stop being stupid Damo.

Childish ad hominem, your 'go to' move, nothing says you are in a conversation with QP Herman than the childish ad homs. LOL. He again goes into the "they are decentralized" argument, hence my description of Pentecostal churches which are also decentralized and not hierarchical. There is no central Pentecostal authority that 'officially' makes you a Pentecostal church. Not like the Methodists (an organization).

Antifa is not an ideology, leftism is an ideology. Antifa is a decentralized group with leftist ideology they use websites, aps, and social media to set up gatherings and meetings, sometimes for parades, sometimes for violence, but it is a group. There is no central ideology of "Antifa" that exists anywhere other than your imagination. Leftist is their ideology, Antifa is their organization.

 

[QP!]

Christianity is a belief system, but not "an organization", which organization is Christianity? Is it the Catholics? Now that is an organization. Is it the Pentecostal churches? Those are organizations but they are not Christianity. Christianity is an overarching belief system that spans many organizations. Like leftism.

Antifa is Antifa, they are an organization. They have websites, aps, flags, symbols that they define this group with... leftist ideology is part of what defines them, but it is not them... Lefitsm would be the ideology, Antifa is like the Pentecostal Churches, there is no centralized Pentecostal organization that you have to belong to to become a Pentecostal Church... but they are definitely an organization, just not centralized or hierarchical.

ZOMG Christian organizations have merch, websites and Apps and flags so Christianity IS AN ORGANIZATION.,

 

[Damocles]

Which organization is the entire Antifascist movement?

Do you not think i can post links to Christianity web sites. one with flags, aps, symbols? We went thru this already i showed you how stupid you were being with this point.

Just like the Pentecostal Churches, decentralized, but organized nonetheless. Antifa is Antifa. Leftism being rebranded as "Antifascism" notwithstanding. Antifa is the group that is Antifa... Just like Pentecostal Churches are the organization of Pentecostal Churches. Equally decentralized... equally organized. Though one is far less violent.

 

[RB 60]

Nah, the Army of God is a real organization, they commit violence against Abortion Clinics in the name of Christianity. These Christian Terrorists exist, even if I would find them inconvenient saying they do. His argument that because "all" people who say they are Antifa do not commit these violent acts, we should not call the Antifa Groups that do commit violence Antifa Terrorists. I disagree, I do not think you should call them other than what they are because it is inconvenient to folks who call themselves Antifa that "aren't violent"... I also do not think that walking in a parade one day means you are never violent. I think the membership of these two groups probably overlap more than he'd be willing to admit.

I won't disagree, but there hasn't been any violence at abortion clinics in quite some time. The rest of us frown on any violence, despite our beliefs
on abortion.
That said, ANTIFA isn't a "centralized organization" per se. It's "membership" is made up of small local cells. Not national or singularly led.

 

[Damocles]

I won't disagree, but there hasn't been any violence at abortion clinics in quite some time. The rest of us frown on any violence, despite our beliefs
on abortion.
That said, ANTIFA isn't a "centralized organization" per se. It's "membership" is made up of small local cells. Not national or singularly led.

I agree, Antifa is an organization, not an ideology. Leftism is the ideology, Antifa is one of the many organizations that share that ideology.

 

[QP!]

Childish ad hominem, your 'go to' move, nothing says you are in a conversation with QP Herman than the childish ad homs. LOL. He again goes into the "they are decentralized" argument, hence my description of Pentecostal churches which are also decentralized and not hierarchical. There is no central Pentecostal authority that 'officially' makes you a Pentecostal church. Not like the Methodists (an organization).

Antifa is not an ideology, leftism is an ideology. Antifa is a decentralized group with leftist ideology they use websites, aps, and social media to set up gatherings and meetings, sometimes for parades, sometimes for violence, but it is a group. There is no central ideology of "Antifa" that exists anywhere other than your imagination. Leftist is their ideology, Antifa is their organization.

Damo do you not know Antifa is just the short form name for the global Anti Fascist movement?

I want to think you would know that but then you are stupid.

The Anti Fascist movement in the US is ANY and ALL people who identify with being against fascism. Thus why it is decentralized and with no leadership structure. It is a belief system. An ideology, a political movement.

 

[Damocles]

Damo do you not know Antifa is just the short form name for the global Anti Fascist movement?

I want to think you would know that but then you are stupid.

The Anti Fascist movement in the US is ANY and ALL people who identify with being against fascism. Thus why it is decentralized and with no leadership structure. It is a belief system. An ideology, a political movement.

I know that there is an organized movement that call themselves Antifa, and that organization often commits violence. That organization is not an ideology, it is an organization. Ideology of this global Antifascist group is leftism... and it is shared by Antifa... nobody is saying leftism is an organization, they are pointing to an organization that exists (websites, aps, meetings, violence, et al) and saying "That organization exists"... while you are pretending that what we see with our own eyes must be ignored because you want to claim it is an ideology and therefore should not be named.

 

[QP!]

I agree, Antifa is an organization, not an ideology. Leftism is the ideology, Antifa is one of the many organizations that share that ideology.

He did not say Antifa is an organization so you do not agree.

What he said is it is made of small local cells (groups).

That is how ideologies exist. They are comprised of small or big local groups. Christianity being a massive ideology has many large and small such groups.

Christianity, like Anti Fascism, or Fascism, or communism or Leftism or Rightism are the ideologies at the top, and then you have groups operating below.

 

[Hawkeye10]

I know that there is an organized movement that call themselves Antifa, and that organization often commits violence. That organization is not an ideology, it is an organization. Ideology of this global Antifascist group is leftism... and it is shared by Antifa... nobody is saying leftism is an organization, they are pointing to an organization that exists (websites, aps, meetings, violence, et al) and saying "That organization exists"... while you are pretending that what we see with our own eyes must be ignored because you want to claim it is an ideology and therefore should not be named.

Any organization the runs such as well organized intel operation which decides who gets in as ANTIFA does.....

 

[QP!]

I know that there is an organized movement that call themselves Antifa, and that organization often commits violence. That organization is not an ideology, it is an organization. Ideology of this global Antifascist group is leftism... and it is shared by Antifa... nobody is saying leftism is an organization, they are pointing to an organization that exists (websites, aps, meetings, violence, et al) and saying "That organization exists"... while you are pretending that what we see with our own eyes must be ignored because you want to claim it is an ideology and therefore should not be named.

I know that there is organized movements that call themselves Christian and that often commit violence.

But go ahead tell who are the leaders and what is the address of this Antifa organization you speak of?

And you can 'see with your own eyes' that i have proven Christianity has apps, merch, websites, etc. So i have done what you have not and PROVED Christianity is an organization if i use your standards.

 

[Damocles]

He did not say Antifa is an organization so you do not agree.

What he said is it is made of small local cells (groups).

That is how ideologies exist. They are comprised of small or big local groups. Christianity being a massive ideology has many large and small such groups.

Christianity, like Anti Fascism, or Fascism, or communism or Leftism or Rightism are the ideologies at the top, and then you have groups operating below.

Describing how it is organized does not change that it is organized. You literally just said, "just because it is organized this way and not that way it isn't organized"....

That is not how ideologies exist, it is how a decentralized organization exists. Often terrorists groups do this to avoid easy prosecution of easy to find centralized leadership. It does not change that they are organizations. It just shows they are organized in a different way than your limited argument demands in order to be called organized.

 

[RB 60]

I know that there is an organized movement that call themselves Antifa, and that organization often commits violence. That organization is not an ideology, it is an organization. Ideology of this global Antifascist group is leftism... and it is shared by Antifa... nobody is saying leftism is an organization, they are pointing to an organization that exists (websites, aps, meetings, violence, et al) and saying "That organization exists"... while you are pretending that what we see with our own eyes must be ignored because you want to claim it is an ideology and therefore should not be named.

Christianity cannot be defined as an organization because there are so many different denominations of it.

 

[QP!]

Describing how it is organized does not change that it is organized. You literally just said, "just because it is organized this way and not that way it isn't organized"....

That is not how ideologies exist, it is how a decentralized organization exists. Often terrorists groups do this to avoid easy prosecution of easy to find centralized leadership. It does not change that they are organizations. It just shows they are organized in a different way than your limited argument demands in order to be called organized.

I agree. Christianity is organized.

Christianity has disparate small groups who commit crime and terrorist acts.

Thus Christianity is criminal and terrorist.

If you cannot give a single distinction why Christianity escapes the same weak and blanket 'labeling' you are trying to apply to the anti fascist ideology then you have no argument.

Terry at least named the few organization who he says commit the crimes under the Anti Fascist banner, in the same way i named the christian ones.

So explain why it is different when the christian ones do the crimes and why is not the entire Christianity ideology labeled? why do you say the entire Anti fascist ideology is labelled?