Physical materialism

[Dutch Uncle]

It always is over at some point. For all of us. I’m just not under the illusion that I’m coming back in my ghost sheets to visit you as Christmas Past.

Of course.

OTOH, as the wise man said "Some people need killing". Especially if they are destructive and/or a danger to others. It's like putting down a mad dog. Not fun, but necessary.

Thanks for agreeing with my previous posts about magic, miracles and the like:

Atheism is saying "there is no God". Agnosticism says "I don't know if there's a God and there's no way to prove or disprove God's existence".

Miracles don't exist. Just unlikely outcomes like the sole survivor of the Air India crash. The idiots claiming Trump was spared an assassin's bullet as a miracle are neglecting the others who were killed or maimed in the shooting including the kid assassin himself.

I don't believe in precognition. I researched "Fourth Force" Psychology in college. Both the CIA and KGB researched it for decades with zilch to show for it.

There's no such thing as miracles, magic, telepathy, telekinesis, precognition or anything else outside the natural laws of the Universe. There's only odds and probability.

 

[Cypress]

I prefer the Sagan type of atheist.

Sagan was really an agnostic.

On atheism, Sagan said in 1981:

Carl Sagan: "An atheist is someone who is certain that God does not exist, someone who has compelling evidence against the existence of God. I know of no such compelling evidence. Because God can be relegated to remote times and places and to ultimate causes, we would have to know a great deal more about the universe than we do now to be sure that no such God exists. To be certain of the existence of God and to be certain of the nonexistence of God seem to me to be the confident extremes in a subject so riddled with doubt and uncertainty as to inspire very little confidence indeed."

<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Sagan#cite_note-Sagan2006-126"><span>[</span>126</a>

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Sagan was really an agnostic.

On atheism, Sagan said in 1981:

Agreed.

OTOH, militant atheists are notoriously emotional. They have feelings, not logic....much less evidence. LOL

 

[Cypress]

Agreed.

OTOH, militant atheists are notoriously emotional. They have feelings, not logic....much less evidence. LOL

Agreed. I don't think Einsten was really an atheist either.

I think genuine atheists are rare. I mean, like atheist to the core. It's almost impossible to base your life on a worldview of strict physical materialism, like Karl Marx and Sigmund Freud wanted to do - and to have to sheer confidence to believe nothing exists but inanimate matter and energy.

 

[domer76]

You just want to bang your head against a wall and call it "discussing". I suspect it's how your parents handled things at home.

Your assumptions are juvenile and unsophisticated. Mostly emotion. Heated rhetoric with name-calling when you don't get your way, lies about others and leaping to assumptions for things never posted.

An intelligent, educated and rational person posts with calm, logic and references. Enjoy your hate.

I looked up the net worth of Dawkins vs the money for salvation people. He doesn’t even break into the top ten of those tax evading whores. The difference is, he was renowned for his contributions to science long before his atheist schtick. So, are they the same? Nope. Not by a long shot.

Keep throwing shit on the wall, Festus. Sooner or later it might stick.

On the other issue, Rastus, I’m not the one making any assumptions. It’s you fucks and your immaterial “something else” that you seem to have a need for. And with ZERO evidence of its existence. That’s called FAITH, dude. Just fucking admit it and move on.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Agreed. I don't think Einsten was really an atheist either.

I think genuine atheists are rare. I mean, like atheist to the core. It's almost impossible to base your life on a worldview of strict physical materialism, like Karl Marx and Sigmund Freud wanted to do - and to have to sheer confidence to believe nothing exists but inanimate matter and energy.

Agreed on pure atheists. Most are really agnostics leaning toward atheism.

Even Dawkins wasn't stupid enough to rate himself a seven on his own belief scale.

 

[gmark77]

I think genuine atheists are rare.

Actually everyone is an atheist to one extent or another. Unless you truly and honestly are "agnostic" about the existence of Zeus. Or David Koresh.

I mean, like atheist to the core.

No true scotsman! (How many logic flaws can Cy explore? Follow him for more!)

- and to have to sheer confidence to believe nothing exists but inanimate matter and energy.

LOL. You really don't understand what you are debating against. It's HILARIOUS watching you flounder and flail about.

Implicit Atheism is NOT a belief system, dude. Atheism is the lack of belief

How are you SO FUCKING STUPID you can't understand this simple point??? Wow. So dumb.

 

[domer76]

Agreed.

OTOH, militant atheists are notoriously emotional. They have feelings, not logic....much less evidence. LOL

You see, Rufus, you always miss the mark on the atheist thing. We don’t claim we HAVE EVIDENCE of no gods. The claim is that there IS NO EVIDENCE existence of one.

I know it’s difficult for you to grasp the difference of those two, Goober, but they are completely different claims.

 

[Freddy Figbottom]

I think scientism, defined as empirical investigation, limits us to mechanistic knowledge of natural processes involving matter and energy.

What does an unnatural process look like?

You trying to mate?

OTOH, we couldn't use scientism to establish geometric truths, or knowledge of abstract properties like liberty, natural rights, equality, etc.

You keep defining scientism wrong.

That makes you look dim.

 

[Cypress]

Agreed on pure atheists. Most are really agnostics leaning toward atheism.

Even Dawkins wasn't stupid enough to rate himself a seven on his own belief scale.

I've heard Dawkins say he is a cultural Christian, and I've also heard him say that somebody can reasonably make the case that the order, design, and fine tuning of the universe implies a designer, in a deistic sense of clockwork designer god. He wouldn't necessarily accept it, but he could see it being a reasonable argument.

 

[domer76]

Sagan was really an agnostic.

On atheism, Sagan said in 1981:

I don’t agree with his characterization of an atheist. True atheists don’t present evidence of no gods. You can’t prove that negative. An atheist merely claims there IS NO EVIDENCE of their existence. And that’s what Sagan held. His quote that you conveniently truncated:

“but neither do I consider there to be anything approaching adequate evidence for such a god.”

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I looked up the net worth of Dawkins vs the money for salvation people.

Bilking militant atheists was an untapped market. Trump did that with his MAGAts by tapping into white racism.

$10M from bilking idiots is good work if one can get it. LOL

Hitchens croaked in 2011. Had he lived, I have no doubt he'd be a double-digit millionaire bilking idiots just like his friend and the televangelists you hate so much.

Richard Dawkins Net Worth 2025: How He Makes Money And Salary

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Richard Dawkins’ estimated net worth stands at $10 million. His wealth primarily comes from book sales, lecture fees, and his tenure as a professor at the University of Oxford.

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pennbookcenter.com

As of 2025, Sam Harris’ estimated net worth stands at $12 million. His wealth primarily comes from book sales, podcast revenue, and his Waking Up meditation app. While he may not be among the wealthiest intellectuals, his income places him among successful authors and public speakers.

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Christopher Hitchens’ net worth is estimated at $4 million, reflecting a career built through fearless journalism, bestselling books, and iconic debates.

 

[Freddy Figbottom]

There is nothing immoral about killing meat robots. At worse, it's like killing a dog. Amiri

You're fine with sniping gaza babies.

Are you an atheist?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I've heard Dawkins say he is a cultural Christian, and I've also heard him say that somebody can reasonably make the case that the order, design, and fine tuning of the universe implies a designer, in a deistic sense of clockwork designer god. He wouldn't necessarily accept it, but he could see it being a reasonable argument.

Ain't most of us who grew up in the West and other nations with a Christianity as their majority religion?

That might explain why he rated himself a 6 on his belief scale.

 

[Freddy Figbottom]

I don’t agree with his characterization of an atheist. True atheists don’t present evidence of no gods. You can’t prove that negative. An atheist merely claims there IS NO EVIDENCE of their existence. And that’s what Sagan held.

That's agnostic.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

You see, Rufus, you always miss the mark on the atheist thing. We don’t claim we HAVE EVIDENCE of no gods. The claim is that there IS NO EVIDENCE existence of one.

 

[Cypress]

I don’t agree with his characterization of an atheist. True atheists don’t present evidence of no gods. You can’t prove that negative. An atheist merely claims there IS NO EVIDENCE of their existence. And that’s what Sagan held.

That is bordering on agnosticism.

Every legitimate dictionary definition I've seen defines atheism as an active disbelief in gods and deities.

The transformation you are attempting to shoehorn into atheism is treading on agnostic territory.

His quote that you conveniently truncated:

“but neither do I consider there to be anything approaching adequate evidence for such a god.”

The quote I provided made crystal clear he thought the claims of both atheists and theists were unfounded, as was the unwarranted confidence they both tend to show.

 

[domer76]

Bilking militant atheists was an untapped market. Trump did that with his MAGAts by tapping into white racism.

$10M from bilking idiots is good work if one can get it. LOL

Hitchens croaked in 2011. Had he lived, I have no doubt he'd be a double-digit millionaire bilking idiots just like his friend and the televangelists you hate so much.

Richard Dawkins Net Worth 2025: How He Makes Money And Salary

What is Richard Dawkins net worth in 2025? PBC explores his wealth, income sources, and financial journey, from book royalties to speaking fees and academia.

pennbookcenter.com

Richard Dawkins’ estimated net worth stands at $10 million. His wealth primarily comes from book sales, lecture fees, and his tenure as a professor at the University of Oxford.

Sam Harris Net Worth 2025: How He Earns From Books, Podcasts & More

What is Sam Harris net worth in 2025? PBC breaks down his earnings from books, podcasts, and his meditation app while comparing him to other public intellectuals.

pennbookcenter.com

As of 2025, Sam Harris’ estimated net worth stands at $12 million. His wealth primarily comes from book sales, podcast revenue, and his Waking Up meditation app. While he may not be among the wealthiest intellectuals, his income places him among successful authors and public speakers.

Christopher Hitchens Net Worth 2025: How He Earned His Fortune

What is Christopher Hitchens net worth in 2025? PBC explores his income, career highs, and financial legacy in this detailed breakdown.

pennbookcenter.com

Christopher Hitchens’ net worth is estimated at $4 million, reflecting a career built through fearless journalism, bestselling books, and iconic debates.

None if those break into the top ten of fear mongering eternal damnation whores. The difference is they made their marks in their own fields prior to their atheist shtick.

Dude, you are just fucking flailing here. Grab a life jacket before you drown!

 

[Dutch Uncle]

None if those break into the top ten of fear mongering eternal damnation whores. The difference is they made their marks in their own fields prior to their atheist shtick.

Dude, you are just fucking flailing here. Grab a life jacket before you drown!

Wow. What happened to you? Parents? A girlfriend? A boyfriend? Did a church throw you out for being gay? That would certainly explain the angst.

 

[Cypress]

Bilking militant atheists was an untapped market. Trump did that with his MAGAts by tapping into white racism.

$10M from bilking idiots is good work if one can get it. LOL

Hitchens croaked in 2011. Had he lived, I have no doubt he'd be a double-digit millionaire bilking idiots just like his friend and the televangelists you hate so much.

Richard Dawkins Net Worth 2025: How He Makes Money And Salary

What is Richard Dawkins net worth in 2025? PBC explores his wealth, income sources, and financial journey, from book royalties to speaking fees and academia.

pennbookcenter.com

Richard Dawkins’ estimated net worth stands at $10 million. His wealth primarily comes from book sales, lecture fees, and his tenure as a professor at the University of Oxford.

Sam Harris Net Worth 2025: How He Earns From Books, Podcasts & More

What is Sam Harris net worth in 2025? PBC breaks down his earnings from books, podcasts, and his meditation app while comparing him to other public intellectuals.

pennbookcenter.com

As of 2025, Sam Harris’ estimated net worth stands at $12 million. His wealth primarily comes from book sales, podcast revenue, and his Waking Up meditation app. While he may not be among the wealthiest intellectuals, his income places him among successful authors and public speakers.

Christopher Hitchens Net Worth 2025: How He Earned His Fortune

What is Christopher Hitchens net worth in 2025? PBC explores his income, career highs, and financial legacy in this detailed breakdown.

pennbookcenter.com

Christopher Hitchens’ net worth is estimated at $4 million, reflecting a career built through fearless journalism, bestselling books, and iconic debates.

Atheists are overwhelmingly young white men in western countries, so it's not as large a market as the ones televangelist hucksters can tap.

Still, Dawkins salary as a professor at Cambridge was dwarfed by his profits from book sales. So that was a good gig for him!