US falls to average in education ranking

[FUCK THE POLICE]

You are falling into the same trap as countless others who are blind to reality and simply look for and expect simple solutions.
Why on earth should we all make this distinction between what you call 'public' schools and the private sector?
State schools (public: Am) are often of a lower quality because politicians/governments will not allocate sufficient resources. Don't send your children to fee paying schools, demand that your representatives support equal education for everyone.
That is by far the best investment for the future of everyone in every country. Today's children are going to look after us by their policies and governance. It is they who will drive the country and it is we who will benefit. It is crazy to expect them to pay for the priviledge of helping us!
Get out onto the street and demand a fair education policy. Break down the barriers and let your best people rise to the top - not the silver spoon fed sons and daughters of the corrupt and famous.

In the US every kid whines when they get homework and we seem to value natural talent in some discipline greater than talent gained through hard work. In high school band our lead trumpeter practiced trumpet all the time, and he constantly got shit from the second chair, who complained to others that she could be just as good as him if she practiced that much. I'm just like, how does that logic even apply? There were also plenty of people who boasted that they were doing awful but were actually smart and could do really well if they tried. There is no difference between laziness and idiocy.

At the college level this just gets ridiculous. The guy next to me in my Discrete Structures class would whine every time the professor gave out homework. He apparently considered it absurd that he should have to study after each class (keep in mind we only met two times a week). You know you don't have to be here if you don't want to learn the subject, right?

 

[Canceled2]

My question is, "Do ALL 15 year olds in every country take this test?" I know that in Germany only children on the Gymnasium track take the test, so not EVERY 15 year old in Germany does not take this test. In the US EVERY kid takes the test. Under NCLB, even kids with learning disabilities take the test. I know this because my brother is a high school teacher and the special ed kids take the tests. If we tracked kids and then just let our top tier take the exams we would do better against the other countries.

Standardized testing is decided at the state level. In WA special ed students do not have to take the WASL (Washington Assessment of Standard Learning) They can take the WAAS (Washington Alternate Assessment System) if they qualify for students with disabilities at extreme low levels of cognitive ability. Sixty percent of students in special education are not developmentally disabled. They have dyslexia, behavior problems or a mild learning disability and can do fine with some extra help.

How the scores of these students are factored in to national stats I am not sure.

 

[Socrtease]

Vouchers are welfare. They would merely supplement the wealthy in sending their kids to their private schools. Also, vouchers would end up giving parents more money than THEY paid into the system. All of us pay for public education, whether we have kids or not, so vouchers would end up giving away that money as well, not just the money you would otherwise pay in taxes toward education. Truth of the matter is, the Countries that do best in education have ONE minister of education, with one standard, even if they have different tiers. The Schools in Berlin have the same standards as the Schools in Munich. What we have are thousands of boards of education with different standards. We send our kids to school like they are still working on farms rather than sitting on their asses all summer long. Kids in this Country should go to school for 220 days, there should be shorter breaks between 9 week periods. We need year round schools.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

In the US every kid whines when they get homework and we seem to value natural talent in some discipline greater than talent gained through hard work. In high school band our lead trumpeter practiced trumpet all the time, and he constantly got shit from the second chair, who complained to others that she could be just as good as him if she practiced that much. I'm just like, how does that logic even apply? There were also plenty of people who boasted that they were doing awful but were actually smart and could do really well if they tried. There is no difference between laziness and idiocy.

At the college level this just gets ridiculous. The guy next to me in my Discrete Structures class would whine every time the professor gave out homework. He apparently considered it absurd that he should have to study after each class (keep in mind we only met two times a week). You know you don't have to be here if you don't want to learn the subject, right?

Exactly, when does it stop being the fault of some bogey man liberal and starts being the fault of the student and the parents who raise them? I was a good student because I had some talent, my parents nurtured that talent and taught me the importance of working hard and studying for my education.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Vouchers are welfare. They would merely supplement the wealthy in sending their kids to their private schools. Also, vouchers would end up giving parents more money than THEY paid into the system. All of us pay for public education, whether we have kids or not, so vouchers would end up giving away that money as well, not just the money you would otherwise pay in taxes toward education. Truth of the matter is, the Countries that do best in education have ONE minister of education, with one standard, even if they have different tiers. The Schools in Berlin have the same standards as the Schools in Munich. What we have are thousands of boards of education with different standards. We send our kids to school like they are still working on farms rather than sitting on their asses all summer long. Kids in this Country should go to school for 220 days, there should be shorter breaks between 9 week periods. We need year round schools.

Exactly. That's why I oppose vouchers. Why should I be coerced into subsidizing the education of the children of the wealthy. If they want their kids to go to private school let them foot the bill.

 

[Phantasmal]

They don't know me, liar.

They wouldn't like your comments about retards! They are kind of sensitive about those things.

 

[Canceled2]

Exactly. That's why I oppose vouchers. Why should I be coerced into subsidizing the education of the children of the wealthy. If they want their kids to go to private school let them foot the bill.

Vouchers for the wealthy? Easilly avoided in the same way reduced and free lunches don't go to the wealthy.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Exactly, when does it stop being the fault of some bogey man liberal and starts being the fault of the student and the parents who raise them? I was a good student because I had some talent, my parents nurtured that talent and taught me the importance of working hard and studying for my education.

Mainly I think the mythology that your advancement isn't "real" if it wasn't gained effortlessly hurts a lot of smart kids. Having a high intelligence can help you, but at the end of the day, an idiot is someone who doesn't study, a smart kid is someone who does, and a genius is someone who's obsessed with the subject.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

What would you know about unions? You don't know that first fucking thing about them. You're just resentful that a working class person has the unmitigated gall to expect to have a standard of living and quality of life equal to or greater then yours, never minding the fact that most of them produce far more then you ever have.

I was a member of the teamsters for six years (3 while in college, 3 after). So I think you should shut the fuck up about what I know or don't know about unions. I know you far left morons have bought the 'working man' line of bullshit from the unions. Bottom line, like many things, unions today are a corrupted version of what they started out to be. In the 30's-50's they were a vital part of our society. But as their power grew, so did their corruption. They went from protecting the workers from bad corporate practices to protecting the worker from actually having to work.

Note to all the dumbasses out there.... enough of this 'working class' bullshit. The people in white collar jobs WORK too.

You are also full of shit Mott on the 'they have produced more than you'. That is just a 'class warfare' line of bullshit.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Vouchers are welfare. They would merely supplement the wealthy in sending their kids to their private schools. Also, vouchers would end up giving parents more money than THEY paid into the system. All of us pay for public education, whether we have kids or not, so vouchers would end up giving away that money as well, not just the money you would otherwise pay in taxes toward education. Truth of the matter is, the Countries that do best in education have ONE minister of education, with one standard, even if they have different tiers. The Schools in Berlin have the same standards as the Schools in Munich. What we have are thousands of boards of education with different standards. We send our kids to school like they are still working on farms rather than sitting on their asses all summer long. Kids in this Country should go to school for 220 days, there should be shorter breaks between 9 week periods. We need year round schools.

Vouchers are NOT welfare. They take the money that would have gone for the child to be in public schools and give it to the private/charter school instead. Vouchers are designed to make the public school system have to COMPETE for the money rather than just being handed it.

Also, the voucher system is not designed to just provide money to the 'wealthy'. The voucher system is designed to give low and middle income families a chance to send their kids to the same quality schools as the wealthy.

That said, I agree with the around the year schooling.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Exactly. That's why I oppose vouchers. Why should I be coerced into subsidizing the education of the children of the wealthy. If they want their kids to go to private school let them foot the bill.

LMAO... what a load of crap. Ask the kids in DC that are being cut off from vouchers how wealthy their families are. Ask the kids in Harlem or Milwaukee the same question.

This is just yet another attempt to demonize a program because it hurts the pathetically run union schools that you worship.

You want more money for teachers etc... do as Soc stated and eliminate the bureaucracy. There is no reason that every single school system needs a superintendent, board, own set of rules etc... There is no reason that every state should set its own standards. There is no reason we should continue the 'teach to the lowest common denominator so every one feels special' platform the public education system has adopted.

 

[Phantasmal]

And it's the conservatives who rail against that nonsense. The american liberals are to blame for softening our children and removing failure from the possible results. We agree on this

If that is the case, it is only because the conservatives weren't showing up for the meetings!
Laziness, and most of you sitting back watching other people take care of what should be your business.
I was very active during my children's education and I will tell you, the conservatives weren't there until it was time to protest something that affected them, like a new school in their backyards, or a book that had been selected for the library. They didn't help pick text books or study curriculum.
They have no place to bitch when they do not participate! All school board meetings were advertised as were PTA meetings.

 

[leaningright]

Reinventing the loser is the answer. For years you have lived with the nonsense that children must not lose. You have invented phrases such as 'first runner up' (basically you lost), 'second runner up' (you really lost), and 'third runner up' (you need help to pick your own nose).
Your exams are designed to be passed by trained rabbits all in the name of equality and 'being niceness'. That must cease. Uniforms should be introduced at every school. Discipline should be enforced properly - where else in the world do schools have police??? You need widespread parental education and punishment of parents of wayward children.
Money is not the answer although without it dothing much can be done.
A new mindset is the answer so all you have to do is find someone with a mind!

I find myself cringing as I type this but this was the first post I came across that made me want to cheer. Someone gets it. As long as teachers (that would be me) are forced to "teach to the middle" and make sure that no one fails we will be average....middlin'....just ok. You simply cannot teach Trigonometry to Patrick....but every day I am forced to try my best to do it. It is very frustrating. Then you got the republicans on one side saying, "cut their money, starve them out, consolidate the schools, extend the school year, yadda, yadda, yadda" and the democrats on the other side saying give them more money but you schools be sure that no one fails, include everyone in your classes, don't segregate based on ability...." It is indeed frustrating.

 

[leaningright]

charter schools mostly work well, but what really works is parental involvement (make sure of attendance, homework getting done, working as aides in classes, etc.)

What will really help is if little Johnny doesn't learn his multiplication facts in 3rd grade...keep his but in 3rd grade until he does. Understand that I am talking about a capable Johnny and not one that isn't capable. On the second point....segregation is the answer, IMO. That Johnny needs to be thouroughly evaluated, looking for strengths and weaknesses and taught accordingly....separate from the rest of the class.

I'm telling you Dixie's and the others who keep harping on teachers as a whole, I don't deny that we have our fair share of bad ones and they need to be rooted out, but I'd like to see anyone try to teach an Algebra class to 30 students with abilities ranging from, "I don't know 2 x 3" to "I can tell you the value of pi out to 20 decimal places." You simply cannot do a good job under those circumstances.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

What will really help is if little Johnny doesn't learn his multiplication facts in 3rd grade...keep his but in 3rd grade until he does. Understand that I am talking about a capable Johnny and not one that isn't capable. On the second point....segregation is the answer, IMO. That Johnny needs to be thouroughly evaluated, looking for strengths and weaknesses and taught accordingly....separate from the rest of the class.

I'm telling you Dixie's and the others who keep harping on teachers as a whole, I don't deny that we have our fair share of bad ones and they need to be rooted out, but I'd like to see anyone try to teach an Algebra class to 30 students with abilities ranging from, "I don't know 2 x 3" to "I can tell you the value of pi out to 20 decimal places." You simply cannot do a good job under those circumstances.

I don't mean to be 'harping' on teachers, I mean to harp on the system. Teachers are no different than any other profession, you have good ones and bad ones. It is the system that allows bad teachers to continue teaching because of a thing called "tenure." And yeah, I agree, it is impossible to teach effectively in class with such a range of ability. Again, that is the fault of the system, which passes students from one grade to the next, based on feelings and emotions, rather than what they know.

Here's the thing about a vouchers program, opening the door to competition from the private sector, means "good" teachers would be in premium demand. If you are a 'cream of the crop' teacher, you might be able to name your price, or maybe have a few schools fighting over you, in short, you're going to make a whole lot more money in such a system. Good teachers are way underpaid, and bad teachers are way overpaid. The vouchers programs would eventually weed out the bad teachers, they would have to find a more suitable profession than teaching our children. Competition would put a high demand (and salary) on well qualified teachers who had a proven track record of being results oriented.

 

[leaningright]

Standardized testing is decided at the state level. In WA special ed students do not have to take the WASL (Washington Assessment of Standard Learning) They can take the WAAS (Washington Alternate Assessment System) if they qualify for students with disabilities at extreme low levels of cognitive ability. Sixty percent of students in special education are not developmentally disabled. They have dyslexia, behavior problems or a mild learning disability and can do fine with some extra help.

How the scores of these students are factored in to national stats I am not sure.

NCLB made it mandatory that ALL students take the tests...at least that is the interpretation of the Educational Leaders in my state. So here, all students take EOI's (End Of Instruction exams) every year, no exceptions. We have 7 of them and it is mandatory that they pass 4 out of the 7...two of them having to be Algebra I and English II. Some states may have found an "out" where their SE kids don't have to take the exams....and if they did I wish they'd come talk to our idiot leaders.

 

[leaningright]

Vouchers are welfare. They would merely supplement the wealthy in sending their kids to their private schools. Also, vouchers would end up giving parents more money than THEY paid into the system. All of us pay for public education, whether we have kids or not, so vouchers would end up giving away that money as well, not just the money you would otherwise pay in taxes toward education. Truth of the matter is, the Countries that do best in education have ONE minister of education, with one standard, even if they have different tiers. The Schools in Berlin have the same standards as the Schools in Munich. What we have are thousands of boards of education with different standards. We send our kids to school like they are still working on farms rather than sitting on their asses all summer long. Kids in this Country should go to school for 220 days, there should be shorter breaks between 9 week periods. We need year round schools.

You know, I am not opposed to me working year round, if the pay was adequate, and I'm not opposed to running a college like schedule for year-round school for older kids. I am adamantly opposed to little kids having to go through such a rigorous school year. Kids need time to be kids. My boy is 7, he is tops (2nd grade) of his class and tops of the class above him (3rd grade) in both test scores and performance. He is like talking to a little adult, part of which comes from being an only child and part of which comes from his above average intelligence. The elementary have been after me to move him up at least one grade and I keep refusing. He needs time to be a kid and do kid things.

As to year-round school, some folks look at it like you can get more information in there if you have more time with the kids...and to some extent that is true. Then there are folks who are for year-round school who want it because that provides them with year-round babysitting service. To sum up, for older kids I think it is OK but not for younger kids.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

I don't mean to be 'harping' on teachers, I mean to harp on the system. Teachers are no different than any other profession, you have good ones and bad ones. It is the system that allows bad teachers to continue teaching because of a thing called "tenure." And yeah, I agree, it is impossible to teach effectively in class with such a range of ability. Again, that is the fault of the system, which passes students from one grade to the next, based on feelings and emotions, rather than what they know.

Here's the thing about a vouchers program, opening the door to competition from the private sector, means "good" teachers would be in premium demand. If you are a 'cream of the crop' teacher, you might be able to name your price, or maybe have a few schools fighting over you, in short, you're going to make a whole lot more money in such a system. Good teachers are way underpaid, and bad teachers are way overpaid. The vouchers programs would eventually weed out the bad teachers, they would have to find a more suitable profession than teaching our children. Competition would put a high demand (and salary) on well qualified teachers who had a proven track record of being results oriented.

Most states have Teacher shortages Already. If you don't even have enough of them to teach the classes you need to Teach, it's a Bit early to start pruning them for quality, or to declare that doing so is the Solution to Everything.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

My question is, "Do ALL 15 year olds in every country take this test?"

How are you sure that these rankings are determined by the results of some standardized test?

 

[leaningright]

Exactly. That's why I oppose vouchers. Why should I be coerced into subsidizing the education of the children of the wealthy. If they want their kids to go to private school let them foot the bill.

If I were forced to live in a city you can bet that my kid would go to a private school or be home schooled. I used to think vouchers were OK because I had that mindset. Now I am more suspect about vouchers because I don't think the supporters of vouchers are supportive of fixing the P.S. system as a whole...ie. they just want their vouchers and let the public school starve. I don't view vouchers as being evil like some but I definitely have changed my opinion somewhat of them over the years.