Question regarding Arizona shooting.

NigelTufnel said:
Dude, you have no more information that this guy was a lunatic left-winger than the people you are criticizing have to show that he was a Tea Party, Palinite freakshow. Slow down, hotshot.

And for the nth time, I'm not blaming Plain nor have I ever blamed Palin.
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Again moron... I did not say it was conclusive or fact. You pointed out that he hated the government and implied that meant it more likely he was in agreement with the tea party.

I refuted that by saying IF he was a fan of marx....

The IF was used to show that it was not conclusive.

Yes I know, you 'aren't blaming Palin, you are just blaming Palin for the hositle atmosphere' got ya. understood. You aren't blaming her, you are just blaming her.
 
Superfreak said:
No, it isn't conclusive moron. There is always the possibility that a guy fond of Marx went to the opposite end of the spectrum over five years. The point is that the morons who immediately jumped to the conclusion that he acted because of Palin's map or because of support of the tea party are pathetic.



So you don't blame them, but you blame them for creating a poisonous atmosphere? LMAO.... yeah... because the poisonous atmosphere only began 2.5 years ago. No poison before that. I mean the left loved Bush. The right loved Clinton etc....

While I agree that the atmosphere has grown worse over the last 2.5 years, that can be said about the last 8 or the last 15 etc... as well. I guess I just don't recall you condemning the left for their vitriolic bullshit during the Bush era. Must be a memory lapse.
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There has been vitriol - like, serious vitriol - ever since Clinton was in office. And I agree that it was bad w/ Bush.

But, as you stated, it has gone up. And I am sorry to not give "equal time" on this, but the time it started going up was w/ all of the town hall meetings on healthcare. I have never seen anything like that in politics, in my lifetime.

And again - sorry to not give equal time, but the fact that the right is more vocally pro-gun makes some of the rhetoric they spew much more immediate (Bachmann stating that she wanted her constituents "armed and dangerous...ready to fight" comes to mind). Does the left spew hate? Of course, and they did throughout the Bush years.

But, it has been turned up to 11.
 
Superfreak said:
No, it isn't conclusive moron. There is always the possibility that a guy fond of Marx went to the opposite end of the spectrum over five years. The point is that the morons who immediately jumped to the conclusion that he acted because of Palin's map or because of support of the tea party are pathetic.
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And you prove that point by . . . jumping to conclusions about his political beliefs.

And saying that he liked the Communist Manifesto isn't the same thing as being a Marxist. One of my favorite books is the Road to Serfdom. And given his age, it is quite easy for someone to do a 180 in terms of political beliefs over a short period.


Superfreak said:
So you don't blame them, but you blame them for creating a poisonous atmosphere? LMAO.... yeah... because the poisonous atmosphere only began 2.5 years ago. No poison before that. I mean the left loved Bush. The right loved Clinton etc....

While I agree that the atmosphere has grown worse over the last 2.5 years, that can be said about the last 8 or the last 15 etc... as well. I guess I just don't recall you condemning the left for their vitriolic bullshit during the Bush era. Must be a memory lapse.
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If, 6 10 or 15 years ago a member of Congress was assassinated at a political event in the wake of an increasingly poisonous political atmosphere I may well have been more explicit in calling out the vitrolic bullshit. But this happened now, and right now and over the past 2.5 years the violence bullshit has been spewing from the right.
 
Apparently, right wingers want to impose the Fairness Doctrine on left-wingers that post on this board. We're supposed to give equal time to those things that we dislike on the left and the right.
 
Superfreak said:
http://www.salon.com/news/gabrielle...itics/war_room/2011/01/09/loughner_not_though


Just one classmates opinion.... but something those on the left might want to consider before going off on their 'he did it because of Palin/Tea party' bullshit.

According to the classmate.... this guy was a lunatic from the LEFT fringe... not the right.
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My problem with the classmate's opinion is that she's talking about teenagers with undeveloped brains, as opposed to a supposedly mature 22-year old.

It's like permanently labelling someone a Goth because they dressed funny in high school.
 
Onceler said:
There has been vitriol - like, serious vitriol - ever since Clinton was in office. And I agree that it was bad w/ Bush.

But, as you stated, it has gone up. And I am sorry to not give "equal time" on this, but the time it started going up was w/ all of the town hall meetings on healthcare. I have never seen anything like that in politics, in my lifetime.

And again - sorry to not give equal time, but the fact that the right is more vocally pro-gun makes some of the rhetoric they spew much more immediate (Bachmann stating that she wanted her constituents "armed and dangerous...ready to fight" comes to mind). Does the left spew hate? Of course, and they did throughout the Bush years.

But, it has been turned up to 11.
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Please. The town hall debates were citizens expressing their opinions. Opinions their 'representatives' were ignoring in many cases. The vitriol is coming from the nuts on both sides and in the past 2.5 years it has increased (as we all agree). But it is not just from the right. There have been those types of comments from both sides. About defeating the 'enemy'. About targeted districts. About bringing a gun vs. a knife.

This entire thing was a result of the actions of one nut. A nut who was obsessed with Gifford. A nut that had made numerous death threats in the past. Long before Palin and the tea party.

My entire point is that it is quite ignorant for people to try and put this on Palin and the tea party. THOSE people are guilty of the very vitriolic atmosphere they accuse Palin of escalating.
 
christiefan915 said:
My problem with the classmate's opinion is that she's talking about teenagers with undeveloped brains, as opposed to a supposedly mature 22-year old.

It's like permanently labelling someone a Goth because they dressed funny in high school.
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I am not labeling this guy as a marxist.... my point is that it is not likely the guy went from 'fond of marx' to 'tea party assassin' in that short time frame.
 
Ice Dancer said:
A Sheriff made a statement about this kind of thing happening because of all the vitriolic politics in his state (paraphrase mine)
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Yeah, because he put it here I looked into it. The same department that had no less than 16 reports of this same man threatening to kill people. Yup. True.

Did you know that even in AZ had he been forced in for a psych eval he could not have purchased the gun legally? Yeah. Somebody wasn't doing their job, and that somebody may be trying to deflect from his own responsibility. Sarah never had direct knowledge of a lunatic threatening to kill people, the Sheriff did. The guy threatened bloggers, radio personalities, teachers and students at the community college, and nobody had him checked for a psych eval...

These people died, not because of "political rhetoric" but because nobody took responsibility for this guy's clear and direct threat to others.
 
NigelTufnel said:
And you prove that point by . . . jumping to conclusions about his political beliefs.

And saying that he liked the Communist Manifesto isn't the same thing as being a Marxist. One of my favorite books is the Road to Serfdom. And given his age, it is quite easy for someone to do a 180 in terms of political beliefs over a short period.
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Keep spinning moron. I stated clearly that it was a statement from ONE CLASSMATE. I did not jump to conclusions, but pointed to the fact that it was not likely he was coming from a tea party perspective. But do keep ignoring his past. I know you want to blame the tea party.

Yeah, people flip 180 degrees. I am sure that is what happened. Good point.


If, 6 10 or 15 years ago a member of Congress was assassinated at a political event in the wake of an increasingly poisonous political atmosphere I may well have been more explicit in calling out the vitrolic bullshit. But this happened now, and right now and over the past 2.5 years the violence bullshit has been spewing from the right.
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yeah... you aren't blaming the right. Just an independent observer.

You want to pretend the right is advocating violence. I understand. It is what your masters are telling you to do.
 
If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun. – June 2008.

I want you to go out and talk to your neighbors… I want you to argue with them, get in their faces. – September 2008.

I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry. I’m angry. – March 2009.

If Latinos sit out the election instead of saying, “We’re gonna punish our enemies and we’re gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us,” if they don’t see that kind of upsurge in voting in this election, then I think it’s gonna be harder, and that’s why I think it’s so important that people focus on November 2. – October 2010.
 
NigelTufnel said:
Did you really just dig up some British movie that nobody has ever heard of? Christ, where'd you stumble across this gem?
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LOL.... did you really just try and pretend no one has ever heard of the movie?

yeah, I suppose there were no articles or mentions of it anywhere when it came out. Couldn't have been an AP story about it. Nah... never happened.
 
NigelTufnel said:
So I'm guessing "you do it too!" is the final answer.
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No moron. It was a refutation of your 'it is coming from the right'. I agree that the discourse in this country needs to change. from both sides of the aisle.

I just don't like dishonest hacks like you who try to paint it as one side or the other. Which is exactly what you did.
 
Superfreak said:
No moron. It was a refutation of your 'it is coming from the right'. I agree that the discourse in this country needs to change. from both sides of the aisle.

I just don't like dishonest hacks like you who try to paint it as one side or the other. Which is exactly what you did.
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Yes, it comes from both sides, but it come from one side a whole hell of a lot more than the other.
 
Superfreak said:
No moron. It was a refutation of your 'it is coming from the right'. I agree that the discourse in this country needs to change. from both sides of the aisle.

I just don't like dishonest hacks like you who try to paint it as one side or the other. Which is exactly what you did.
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SF, you admitted that it has gone up over the past couple of years, and it has. Sorry, but that increase is LARGELY from the right, and if you can't see that, I can't help you. Starting w/ those healthcare town halls (and it's laughable that you characterized those as "just people expressing their opinion").

Combine that with the gun-obsession on the part of many leaders on the right, and yes, I have no problem stating that it is NOT equal from both sides. Both sides do it, but over the past couple of years, there is no doubt whatsoever where more has come from...
 
Onceler said:
SF, you admitted that it has gone up over the past couple of years, and it has. Sorry, but that increase is LARGELY from the right, and if you can't see that, I can't help you. Starting w/ those healthcare town halls (and it's laughable that you characterized those as "just people expressing their opinion").
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Yes, I admitted it has gone up. It has. Both sides are increasing the vitriol. If you can't see that, I can't help you. yes, the focus tends to be on the party out of power.

Do tell me what your point is about the health care town halls. Show me an example of where they were advocating death or violence. Or are you just going to show me that there were angry people in attendance?

Combine that with the gun-obsession on the part of many leaders on the right, and yes, I have no problem stating that it is NOT equal from both sides. Both sides do it, but over the past couple of years, there is no doubt whatsoever where more has come from...
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yeah, they are 'obsessed'. That is just vitriolic crap the left likes to spew forth in an attempt to paint the right as gun toting psychos. But I know, THAT is the vitriol you and nigel don't 'see'.
 
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