DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
You just made my point. Teacher's are trained poorly, so they should be paid poorly.
Education in the US
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You just made my point. Teacher's are trained poorly, so they should be paid poorly.
I did read the fucking article, dipshit. Did you? First, we don't spend more than any other nation on education. That's just plain wrong. Second, even assuming we spend more than any other nation on education, we sure as shit don't spend more than any other nation on teacher salaries.
My point was very very very simple, if you want to attract top notch talent, you cannot pay mediocre wages. The best and brightest students graduating from colleges and universities can earn a hell of a lot more money in a whole host of other professions. Why in the hell would they become teachers?
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
A 181 world ranking. Not bad. Neither schools I went to were in the top 300 though my former employer, The Ohio State University, was ranked 125 though in size I think it's the second or third largest University in the world. It's about 7 times the size of Lancaster.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
They only work 8 months of the year, get tenure after a few years, work 20 years and retire at full pension. That's a pretty good hourly wage when you add it all up.
Yes, it is pretty good. But if you want to attract the best and the brightest, pretty good doesn't cut it.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
Do the math. My guess is that pretty good is on par with or better than the private sector.
You just keep spouting nonsense. Teachers don't earn a lot of money as compared to other professions. It's a fact. Teachers aren't necessarily hurting, but where the best and brightest college graduates can decide whether to become teachers, doctors, lawyers, engineers, bankers, etc. . . teaching is not as attractive as other professions an occupations due to the relatively low pay. You aren't getting rich on a teacher's salary.
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
I pretty much agree. If they had to go through a more rigorous educational program and then had to take professional certification exams that were comparable to the PE, CPA, CSP, RN professional exams then they could demand $75,000 salaries and we'd attract higher caliber teachers.
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
The point of the article was addressing some of the points you bring up. Pay the best what they are worth. Use technology to have the best in front of hundreds of thousands of students. Then have classroom teachers that can lead discussions, grade papers etc...
Get rid of the tenure.
Get rid of the bad teachers.
In addition, to address a point the article does not hit upon... get rid of the unnecessary administrative crap.
As for the spending....
http://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/2010/section4/indicator38.asp
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
which was yet another point in the article on why other countries are kicking the crap out of our education system. They have rigorous standards on who can teach. They offer competitive starting salaries. They fire bad teachers. They do not give out tenure as readily as the US does. Yet they still do not spend as much on education overall per capita.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
As I said earlier, do the math. You don't "get rich" in any profession whee you aren't an entrepreneur or high up on the corporate (or public) structure. For someone who doesn't want to work very hard, take no risks and retire after 20 years with great benefits, a teacher's salary is a lot better than you'd find in the private sector.
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
No there not but who's fault is that? I believe the problem starts at with our University systems and works it way down. Any one here go to college? What was the biggest and easiest Mickey Mouse major at your college or University? Elementary Education. I can remember my University dumbing down the EE major cause to many of the air heads were flunking out and they wanted the revenue stream and it all ready had the reputation of being the easiest major at the school.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
Wow Mott. You must have your meds in balance. This is the first time that you've acknowledged my greatness.
I don't think we're necessarily is disagreement here, SM. Teachers make out alright, but the compensation is not going to attract the best and the brightest college graduates.
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
I wouldn't go that far. An old blind hog finds an acorn every now and then. I just happen to agree with some of what your saying.....this time.
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
Well that's true but you can't just pay some one top dollar cause their pretty and they love kids either. I agree higher pay would attract better talent but higher pay should also come with higher standards and expectations of performance.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
Why should it? It doesn't take a lot of "brightness" to teach k-12. And the highest paid administrators or college professors make 6 figs.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
Yeah you're right. You're just not smart enough to recognize my incredible brilliance.
It doesn't necessarily deter them either. Sometimes the "best and the brightest" actually want to teach and understand that the benefits are heavier at the back end rather than the front end. Sometimes the "best and brightest" choose to become History majors, sometimes lawyers and even sometimes teachers.
I still believe that most of the increase in cost is due to the exponential increase in administration rather than teachers. When elementary schools are getting more than one Vice Principal we're heavy on the Chiefs and many of our "educators" no longer are in classrooms.
If you want to attract top level talent, you don't do it by hoping that they want to teach. You do it by compensating top level talent at top level price.
If you want more education data than you can shake a stick at go here:
http://browse.oecdbookshop.org/oecd/pdfs/browseit/9609061E.PDF