I am dissapointed in President Obama.

[Jarod]

Obama was a follower, not a leader on that...

I dont belive so, he may have made it appear that the USA was taking a back seat (for tactical reasons), but it would not have happened without our involvement and accquence.

ROFLMAO... wow, that is an amazing stretch, did you pull a muscle when writing it?

That is not stretch, the only reason Mubarick was in power so long was because we supported him, 6 months prior to the uprising our state department sent signals that the policy was no longer in effect and that Mubarick would no longer be proped up.

So he followed Bush's plan. Good work.

If that is true, good for him for knowing when to follow a plan that would work. So Bush gets credit for the good things he did, but you cant say anything about what he did to cause this economy? Hack!

He is keeping Iran at bay? Do you watch/read the news?

Does Iran have a nuke?

These are not foreign policy issues Jarod.

Preventing attacks from enemies abroad is not a forign policy issue? Sure it has a domestic componant, but its a FP issue. That is a dense statement!

So 'keeping up the fight in Afghanistan' is good, but so is leaving Iraq. Interesting. Allow Iraq and Egypt to fall under systems not friendly to the US is good. But in Afghanistan it wouldn't be good.

Absolutly, I said that even during the Bush Administration. 9-11 was planned by Al-Queda who was opperating in Afganistan and at odds with the government of Iraq. Al Queda was allowed to operate in Afganistan due to a power vaccum and not allowed to operate in Iraq. We have a duty to the safety of the USA to ensure that the conditions that allowed Al Queda to plan 9-11 are corrected. We never had a justification to be in Iraq at all what so ever! So yes, Iraq BAD, Afganistan NECESSARY!

So again, keeping to what Bush had already set forth. Ok...

yes!

Tell us, how are our relations in Afghanistan right now? Egypt? Iraq? Iran? North Korea? Pakistan? Syria? etc...

It would take a 500 page tretus on each nation to address that request. Our relations in general with all of the Middle Eastern nations is a policy to not interfere with them unless they allow factions to exist who are planning attacks on our interests. The policy is that we will no longer prop up dictatior who we deem to be "friendly" to us, but will allow them to form self government. Our policy in NK as far as I can tell is the same as its been since the 1950's which is one of containment.

ya just realized he doesn't have a lot of foreign policy successes didn't you?

Id say what I listed is a LOT, and there is plenty more.

 

[Bonestorm]

Let me ask you this, SF, what does a foreign policy success look like to you? Can you identify three foreign policy successes since the George H. W. Bush administration?

 

[Damocles]

No matter how low I set the bar for myself, it will remain far too high for you to ever reach.

Buuuurrrrn...

lol

 

[Jarod]

Iraq he followed the timeline set up by Bush... and that was a bad call.
The tracking of Obama was set in place before Obama took office. He made a difficult call on the actual strike, but that is it.

Funny you didn't mention Iran, North Korea, Israel, Palestine, Syria etc...

You keep forgetting the supercandy doctrine, Bush gets credit for polstive lasting effect of his policies, President Obama gets blame for any lasting negative effects of Bush policies.

 

[Bonestorm]

No matter how low I set the bar for myself, it will remain far too high for you to ever reach.

You're right. I don't like to bend over that far.

 

[NOVA]

I like the football game line - very true. I am so, so hesitant to go on record as saying this on the board, but I actually do like Paul, though I also agree that he's kind of crazy. He's really fun to listen to, though.

Kind of crazy ????....well, his ideas are kinda off the wall.....big time.

Its embarrassing to admit that even a small portion of the populous could think this guy is even remotely qualified to sit in the oval office.....

but then I thought the same thing about Obama in 2008 considering is complete lack of experience for the job, but in general, he has followed his
predecessor in most ways and not "unset" the apple cart except for the healthcare issue.....
And in that, I thing he was swayed by Canada and Europe and their adventure into this pseudo-socialist gov. controlled healthcare issue....

Certainly Obama is not as nutty or fanatical as his supporters and party hacks...hes been fairly moderate in most ways.....and I thank the gods for that....

 

[Jarod]

I'm going to pick the 3rd party candidate who I like the best come election time. I have railed 3rd party voting in the past - "Wasted vote! You're just casting a vote for (insert deplorable GOP candidate here)." But I think I was wrong.

Yes, a 3rd party candidate can't win now, which is why it doesn't really matter who I choose. I just see it as a positive if more Americans start voting 3rd party. Maybe one day, one can become viable. Because the 2 parties as they stand now really suck.

I plan to be with you as long as the Republican canidate is Romney, if its any of the other contenders I will vote for President Obama. Romney choosing Senator Rubio for VP might be enough to get me to vote for President Obama.

 

[Damocles]

You're right. I don't like to bend over that far.

Apparently you don't know what the words "too high" mean. lol...

 

[NOVA]

You keep forgetting the supercandy doctrine, Bush gets credit for polstive lasting effect of his policies, Bush gets no blame for any lasting negative effects of his policies.

You keep forgetting the truth and rewriting your own version of history. Positive or negative effects will be determined in the future.

 

[Jarod]

You keep forgetting the truth and rewriting your own version of history. Positive or negative effects will be determined in the future.

So whose fault is the Economy?

Who should we credit for ending the war in Iraq?

Who should we blame for starting the war in Iraq?

 

[NOVA]

I plan to be with you as long as the Republican canidate is Romney, if its any of the other contenders I will vote for President Obama. Romney choosing Senator Rubio for VP might be enough to get me to vote for President Obama.

Funny, Obama picking a loose cannon, foot in mouth, plagiarist didn't bother you.....

Stop lying counselor....you will vote for Obama or any Democrat no matter who the hell is on either ticket....

 

[NOVA]

So whose fault is the Economy?

There is always more than I care to write in a short post....but Bush warned Congress, including Frank and friends, about Problems with Freddie and Fannie long before the shit hit the fan and Barney kept telling us there was no problems, don't worry....I can post the videos and news reports pertinent to these facts if you need to see if over and over again....
so I blame all those that didn't heed Bush's warnings ......

Who should we credit for ending the war in Iraq?

The war was over over 21 days after the invasion and the occupation was a problem....occupying an enemy country takes a certain kind of ruthlessness that the US just ain't good at......a timeline for withdrawal of troops from Iraq was established before Bush left office.....

Who should we blame for starting the war in Iraq?

The war was debated and voted on by the full Congress of US.....and with a bi-partisan vote, passed.....
The war drums were beating from 1996 until Bush finally pulled the trigger in 2003......with congressional approval,
including Prominent Democrats voting for the WAR RESOLUTION.....and everyone KNEW it was a WAR RESOLUTION

Thats history in a nutshell....

 

[Jarod]

Funny, Obama picking a loose cannon, foot in mouth, plagiarist didn't bother you.....

Stop lying counselor....you will vote for Obama or any Democrat no matter who the hell is on either ticket....

No, I dont mind a loose cannon, foot in mouth person.... What I mind are radical right wing political positions, Romney does not have them...Rubio does.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Let me ask you this, SF, what does a foreign policy success look like to you? Can you identify three foreign policy successes since the George H. W. Bush administration?

For Bush... the Gulf war was both a success and a failure... success in that he led the coalition to get Saddam out of Kuwait. Failure because he left Saddam in Iraq. Another would be the removal of Noriega from Panama. Yugoslavia's breakup I can see both sides of the coin. Had we gone in, it could have been a decade long entanglement (especially if we did our 'one hand tied behind our back approach' like we did in Vietnam). But in not going in (obviously hindsight in force here) we ended up with Serbs/Croatians etc... blowing up in the 90's that Clinton had to deal with.

Clinton... Getting Russia out of the Baltics, NAFTA, GATT, Mexico, Bosnia, Serbia, including Poland and the Czech Republic into NATO.

 

[NOVA]

No, I dont mind a loose cannon, foot in mouth person.... What I mind are radical right wing political positions, Romney does not have them...Rubio does.

Then don't lie about who you WILL ABSOLUTELY vote for in any election.....it will be a Democrat, no matter who it is

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

You keep forgetting the supercandy doctrine, Bush gets credit for polstive lasting effect of his policies, President Obama gets blame for any lasting negative effects of Bush policies.

Poor Jarod... are you upset? What Bush Policies are you referring to that you claim I blame Obama for?

 

[Bonestorm]

Let me ask you this, SF, what does a foreign policy success look like to you? Can you identify three foreign policy successes since the George H. W. Bush administration?

I guess I'll open up this question to the rest of you who think Obama has been a foreign policy failure. So, can you identify three foreign policy successes since the George H. W. Bush administration?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

You're right. I don't like to bend over that far.

Ah, thank you for demonstrating yet again your inability to comprehend what you read. See what happens when you try and answer on your own? Perhaps you should stick to your spoon fed responses your masters provide for you.

 

[NOVA]

For Bush... the Gulf war was both a success and a failure... success in that he led the coalition to get Saddam out of Kuwait. Failure because he left Saddam in Iraq. Another would be the removal of Noriega from Panama. Yugoslavia's breakup I can see both sides of the coin. Had we gone in, it could have been a decade long entanglement (especially if we did our 'one hand tied behind our back approach' like we did in Vietnam). But in not going in (obviously hindsight in force here) we ended up with Serbs/Croatians etc... blowing up in the 90's that Clinton had to deal with.

Clinton... Getting Russia out of the Baltics, NAFTA, GATT, Mexico, Bosnia, Serbia, including Poland and the Czech Republic into NATO.

The FACT is.....the only reason there was a coalition was because Bush agreed to not enter Baghdad under any circumstances.....
the mission was freeing Kuwait and it ended right there.....that was the deal that made the coalition possible....

Opinions on the other hot spots would take columns of books....for instance, internal issues or civil war in Yugoslavia didn't effect the US in even a remote way.....
like Libya....

 

[Onceler]

The war was debated and voted on by the full Congress of US.....and with a bi-partisan vote, passed.....
The war drums were beating from 1996 until Bush finally pulled the trigger in 2003......with congressional approval,
including Prominent Democrats voting for the WAR RESOLUTION.....and everyone KNEW it was a WAR RESOLUTION

Thats history in a nutshell....

We've gone over this, but this is the most shameless rewriting of history, on any topic or issue, that I have ever seen.

Why are you so beholden to Bush? What is it about you & giving him any kind of accountability?