What exactly is the argument for NOT drilling?

Aoxomoxoa said:
Oh man, you are such a fool that I don't even know where to start. There is no doubt that there is significant amounts of oil to be extracted in the US but can you point me to anywhere in the US where it would make any difference to oil prices in the next decade?
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??....Maine, California and everywhere in between......
 
PiMP prefers to ignore facts that refute his untenable position.

ostrich-head-in-sand.jpg



He has stubbornly ignore the fact that the USA has raised domestic production to the highest level in years, despite the "restrictions" he claims has cause gas prices to rise.

Domestic gasoline prices rise and fall with global crude oil prices, which have been driven up by the gradual economic recovery and by market jitters over mounting tensions with Iran, one of the world’s largest oil producers.

The closing of several U.S. refineries also has pushed gas prices higher.

More domestic drilling will not end the need for imports, however.

The United States holds only 2% of the planet’s proven oil reserves, but Americans consume 25% of the world’s daily output of crude oil.


http://articles.latimes.com/2012/ma...mestic-production-highest-since-2003-20120311
 
Dixie said:
Regardless of how long it takes, what is the argument for NOT doing it? There hasn't been one stated, and that is what we are examining in this thread... why NOT drill in ANWR... regardless of how long or how little.... WHY NOT STILL? We've got reserves in ANWR, also off the coast in California, Florida, South Carolina and the Gulf of Mexico... WHY NOT DRILL? All you want to keep repeating, is reasons it won't be enough, or won't come fast enough, but you still aren't telling me a reason why we shouldn't drill.
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We are drilling.

According to the Department of Energy, oil imports accounted for 45 percent of the supply of oil in 2011.

In 2010, oil imports fell below 50 percent for the first time since the late 1990s; in 2006, it was 60 percent.

Gas prices are rising in spite of increased domestic production.

The increased supply of oil from the Keystone pipeline would account for about 25 million barrels of oil per month.

Between February and November 2011, that much more was produced anyway and gas prices rose by 10 cents.


http://personalmoneynetwork.com/moneyblog/2012/03/22/domestic-oil-production/
 
\\(())// said:
The United States holds only 2% of the planet’s proven oil reserves, but Americans consume 25% of the world’s daily output of crude oil.
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the poster with a name like a badly combed crewcut makes the same silly mistake that Obama made, trying to pretend that there is a parallel between "planets proven oil reserves" and "world's daily output"......obviously, if Obama had not reinstated the restrictions on domestic production, then the current numbers for "daily output" would be different than they currently are.....also, as I have just documented the fact that the federal government has stated the US has the world's largest deposit of shale oil {over 2 trillion barrels}, the antiquated numbers for "proven oil reserves" are now meaningless......we have most of the world's known oil.......

it is a pity that the poster with a name like a badly combed crewcut hides from the facts.....
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
Oh man, you are such a fool that I don't even know where to start. There is no doubt that there is significant amounts of oil to be extracted in the US but can you point me to anywhere in the US where it would make any difference to oil prices in the next decade?
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Again.... Even if you are right, which I don't believe you are... why not drill for more oil? Okay, so you say it won't make a difference in the price of oil, or the price of gas at the pumps, I presume... well, okay, I don't agree, but so what? Wouldn't people still have to be employed as drill rig operators, truck drivers, engineers, welders, fitters, etc.? Wouldn't someone ultimately be making bank deposits for payroll and such? So, why not allow more drilling of oil? Building of oil pipelines? Refineries for gas and natural gas? What is your argument for NOT doing that.... this is the subject of the thread.
 
Dixie said:
Again.... Even if you are right, which I don't believe you are... why not drill for more oil? Okay, so you say it won't make a difference in the price of oil, or the price of gas at the pumps, I presume... well, okay, I don't agree, but so what? Wouldn't people still have to be employed as drill rig operators, truck drivers, engineers, welders, fitters, etc.? Wouldn't someone ultimately be making bank deposits for payroll and such? So, why not allow more drilling of oil? Building of oil pipelines? Refineries for gas and natural gas? What is your argument for NOT doing that.... this is the subject of the thread.
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I am not against the drilling of oil per se, but it needs to be pointed out that it won't make little, if indeed any difference to the domestic price at the pumps. I am just trying to inject some semblance of reality to this debate.
 
LOL, despite the facts, and without any of their own to refute those presented, Dix-Lie and PiMP refuse to concede defeat.

Hilarity and mass pwnge - the gift that keeps on giving.

Read, and learn:

In 2010, we imported less than 50 percent of the oil our nation consumed—the first time that’s happened in 13 years—and the trend continued in 2011.

We’re relying less on imported oil for a number of reasons, not least that production is up here in the United States.

In fact, America is producing more oil today than at any time in the last eight years.


http://energy.gov/articles/our-dependence-foreign-oil-declining
 
PostmodernProphet said:
why would you pretend that increased production will make no difference?........obviously it will.....
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Because you have to take into account, not only US domestic consumption but the time taken to extract oil from new wells and the vastly increased consumption from countries like China, India and Brazil. I am just trying to inject some reality in the situation, if you think there is a magic bullet which will reduce prices at the pump in the short or even the medium term, then I am here to disabuse you of that false assumption.
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
Because you have to take into account, not only US domestic consumption but the time taken to extract oil from new wells and the vastly increased consumption from countries like China, India and Brazil. I am just trying to inject some reality in the situation, if you think there is a magic bullet which will reduce prices at the pump in the short or even the medium term, then I am here to disabuse you of that false assumption.
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He insists that the sole reason prices have increased is "Obama" and "restrictions on drilling".

No amount of factual data will change what he thinks.
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
I am not against the drilling of oil per se, but it needs to be pointed out that it won't make little, if indeed any difference to the domestic price at the pumps. I am just trying to inject some semblance of reality to this debate.
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Well the bottom line is, I don't believe you. I happen to believe in the economic principle of supply and demand, and my common sense tells me, if we increase supply by drilling for more domestic oil, the price will ultimately go down. Now, you claim it won't happen in ten years, but I don't believe you. But regardless of whether that is true or false, it still isn't a valid reason to not drill for more domestic oil. I specifically started this thread to debate the reasons (if there were any) for NOT drilling, and so far, the best you have come up with is because it won't effect prices, or supply soon enough. And okay, so we presume that's true (it's not, but let's just presume)... wouldn't it still create thousands and thousands of new jobs? Wouldn't you have to figure that people who would invest in drilling operations would probably make a profit eventually, and that would generate some tax revenues? When speculators did their future outlooks, wouldn't an increased future domestic production be likely to cause them to speculate oil to be plentiful in supply in the future, thus causing the speculators to sell oil stocks, making the price go down? You see, dumbass, this whole drilling argument effects a whole lot of things, not just the world oil market prices. Even if it didn't ultimately result in lower oil prices or less dependency, it would create jobs, it would generate economic activity, and you simply can't ignore the fact that more drilling ultimately produces more of the black stuff.
 
Dixie said:
Well the bottom line is, I don't believe you. I happen to believe in the economic principle of supply and demand, and my common sense tells me, if we increase supply by drilling for more domestic oil, the price will ultimately go down. Now, you claim it won't happen in ten years, but I don't believe you. But regardless of whether that is true or false, it still isn't a valid reason to not drill for more domestic oil. I specifically started this thread to debate the reasons (if there were any) for NOT drilling, and so far, the best you have come up with is because it won't effect prices, or supply soon enough. And okay, so we presume that's true (it's not, but let's just presume)... wouldn't it still create thousands and thousands of new jobs? Wouldn't you have to figure that people who would invest in drilling operations would probably make a profit eventually, and that would generate some tax revenues? When speculators did their future outlooks, wouldn't an increased future domestic production be likely to cause them to speculate oil to be plentiful in supply in the future, thus causing the speculators to sell oil stocks, making the price go down? You see, dumbass, this whole drilling argument effects a whole lot of things, not just the world oil market prices. Even if it didn't ultimately result in lower oil prices or less dependency, it would create jobs, it would generate economic activity, and you simply can't ignore the fact that more drilling ultimately produces more of the black stuff.
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Your "common sense" is flawed.

The US cannot even supply it's own domestic demand. That's a fact, although thanks to increased production, we now import less oil than we used to.

Even though our production is the highest it's been in years, and we are exporting oil to other countries, the demand is greater than the available supply. That's also a fact, whether you choose to believe it, or not.

If Obama personally drilled a well in every wilderness area in Alaska, off every beach in Florida, and every trailer park in Alabama, it still wouldn't be enough to stop gas prices rising as long as supply in unequal to demand, and demand is rising around the world. That's a fact, too.

And you'd still insist high prices are his fault, without a shred of evidence to support your claim, wouldn't you?
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
and the vastly increased consumption from countries like China, India and Brazil.
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has it not dawned on you yet that if production is NOT increased and demand vastly increases, that this will have an impact on prices?.....increased production isn't a magic bullet, it's what we need to do to offset increased demand.....that makes it an everyday, run of the mill bullet.....
 
\\(())// said:
The US cannot even supply it's own domestic demand.
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certainly not with restrictions on production.......if production is increased the price will be lower than it will be if production is not increased.......if you aren't willing to admit that there's no reason to pay attention to you.......you're simply too dishonest to debate with.......
 
\\(())// said:
Your "common sense" is flawed.
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My common sense is fine.

The US cannot even supply it's own domestic demand. That's a fact, although thanks to increased production, we now import less oil than we used to.
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You mean, thanks to George W. Bush, who increased drilling permits which led to the increased production we are now seeing.... Remember, increased drilling doesn't mean immediate oil supply, it takes 5-10 years, so the increased oil production now, is from the man who was president 5-10 years ago, that would be George W. Bush. When it gets time for Obama's oil production to come on line in 5-10 years, there will be a dramatic decrease in production, because his admin only authorized 23 drilling permits from 2008-2011. The rate at which permits are granted is down 400% from the previous administration.

Even though our production is the highest it's been in years, and we are exporting oil to other countries, the demand is greater than the available supply. That's also a fact, whether you choose to believe it, or not.
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If demand is greater than supply, common sense tells me we need more supply... what does common sense tell you, cut supply?

If Obama personally drilled a well in every wilderness area in Alaska, off every beach in Florida, and every trailer park in Alabama, it still wouldn't be enough to stop gas prices rising as long as supply in unequal to demand, and demand is rising around the world. That's a fact, too.
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Obama is not going to personally drill a well anywhere, that will be done by independent oil companies. All Obama needs to do is get his happy ass out of the way and let free market capitalism work, let the oil companies do what they do and drill baby drill. I don't care if it "won't be enough" we'll worry about that later, for now, we need to drill.

And you'd still insist high prices are his fault, without a shred of evidence to support your claim, wouldn't you?
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Well it seems to me, if Obama claimed on the campaign trail in 2007, that high gas prices were the fault of George W. Bush, and his refusal to release oil from the strategic reserve, then it must still be the fault of the president, don't you agree? For Obama to now claim there is nothing that can be done, and he is powerless, is somewhat hypocritical, isn't it???
 
Dixie said:
My common sense is fine.
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Your common sense is at odds with the factual data.

Dixie said:
You mean, thanks to George W. Bush, who increased drilling permits which led to the increased production we are now seeing.... Remember, increased drilling doesn't mean immediate oil supply, it takes 5-10 years, so the increased oil production now, is from the man who was president 5-10 years ago, that would be George W. Bush. When it gets time for Obama's oil production to come on line in 5-10 years, there will be a dramatic decrease in production, because his admin only authorized 23 drilling permits from 2008-2011. The rate at which permits are granted is down 400% from the previous administration.
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So you admit that production is up and hasn't decreased retail gas prices....don't tell PiMP.

Dixie said:
If demand is greater than supply, common sense tells me we need more supply... what does common sense tell you, cut supply?
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Nope. Nobody has "cut supply". It's higher than it's been in years right now. Trouble is, global demand is, too, so prices are high.

Dixie said:
Obama is not going to personally drill a well anywhere, that will be done by independent oil companies. All Obama needs to do is get his happy ass out of the way and let free market capitalism work, let the oil companies do what they do and drill baby drill. I don't care if it "won't be enough" we'll worry about that later, for now, we need to drill.
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LOL, you "don't care" so much that you refuse to acknowledge that US output is higher now than it was under Bush? You "don't care" that we have far less oil in the ground than we use? You "don't care" that we can't close the gap between supply and demand with domestic drilling alone?

Dixie said:
Well it seems to me, if Obama claimed on the campaign trail in 2007, that high gas prices were the fault of George W. Bush, and his refusal to release oil from the strategic reserve, then it must still be the fault of the president, don't you agree? For Obama to now claim there is nothing that can be done, and he is powerless, is somewhat hypocritical, isn't it???
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It seems to me that Fox aptly defended Bush from claims that high gas prices were his fault, so how can they be Obama's now?
 
\\(())// said:
Your common sense is at odds with the factual data.
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No, my common sense is based on factual data. If demand is high, and you increase supply, prices stabilize... supply and demand.
This happened when Bush signed the executive order for oil exploration for the oil you are now giving Obama credit for producing, at that time, the price of oil was at over $100 a barrel, and within two weeks the price dropped to $41. This was due to speculators selling off futures instead of buying. OPEC eventually voted to cut production and prices went back up.


So you admit that production is up and hasn't decreased retail gas prices....don't tell PiMP.
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As long as you admit it's because of George W. Bush opening up domestic drilling when he was president, which has led to it. I won't tell!

Nope. Nobody has "cut supply". It's higher than it's been in years right now. Trouble is, global demand is, too, so prices are high.
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Again.... if demand is high for something, why would you stand in the way of producing more of it? Mental retardation? What??? I'm still waiting for you, or some liberal, to explain to me why we are even having an argument on whether we should drill for more domestic oil, it seems like something even a retard could understand. If demand is high and getting higher, does it not make sense in your feeble mind, that we want to increase supply to meet the demand, or at least TRY to meet it?

LOL, you "don't care" so much that you refuse to acknowledge that US output is higher now than it was under Bush? You "don't care" that we have far less oil in the ground than we use? You "don't care" that we can't close the gap between supply and demand with domestic drilling alone?
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Again, US production has increased BECAUSE of Bush! That is why output is higher, because Bush allowed more domestic drilling... OBAMA HASN'T! Sitting on our hands and refusing to drill for the oil that we do have, is not a way to meet demand... it's just fucking NOT! I guarantee you will not meet demand if you do not try at all!

It seems to me that Fox aptly defended Bush from claims that high gas prices were his fault, so how can they be Obama's now?
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What are you gonna run around in circles like a little girl now? Hey Bozo, it was YOU who was busting Bush's chops over high gas prices! You blamed Bush, regardless of what Fox said or anyone said! Now that it's YOUR guy, we get pure hypocrisy.
 
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