10 myths about govt debt - Professor Anthony Davies

[Hawkeye10]

I honestly have non idea what you’re talking about. I thought the topic was govt spending and the need to cut it. You’re talking about something else

It is way the fuck too late to reform and avert calamity.

America is going down....HARD.

 

[cawacko]

It is way the fuck too late to reform and avert calamity.

America is going down....HARD.

A thread about spending but we shouldn’t discuss spending. Ok.

 

[Celticguy]

Americas standard of living will be plummeting, there is no other way out.

for the majority who are net tax takers it certainly will.
no more smartphones, Air Jordans, knockoff Gucci shit for you.

 

[cawacko]

for the majority who are net tax takers it certainly will.
no more smartphones, Air Jordans, knockoff Gucci shit for you.

Do you disagree that without pressure/support from voters that nothing will change?

I go back to the Libertarian Party who has run for decades that our entitlement programs need to be cut or eliminated. They’ve railed against the billions/trillions we’ve spent on the military etc. They can’t sniff getting elected.

For most voters it’s not an issue. We are far more focused on cultural issues, the border, climate, trade etc than reducing spending. As long as we don’t demand politicians do something about it then they never will because right now if they do we will vote them out.

 

[Celticguy]

Do you disagree that without pressure/support from voters that nothing will change?

I go back to the Libertarian Party who has run for decades that our entitlement programs need to be cut or eliminated. They’ve railed against the billions/trillions we’ve spent on the military etc. They can’t sniff getting elected.

For most voters it’s not an issue. We are far more focused on cultural issues, the border, climate, trade etc than reducing spending. As long as we don’t demand politicians do something about it then they never will because right now if they do we will vote them out.

I believe it will happen because there no longer is a choice in the matter.
main reason is because all those entities riding the gravy train of govt are dead set against it.

 

[cawacko]

I believe it will happen because there no longer is a choice in the matter.
main reason is because all those entities riding the gravy train of govt are dead set against it.

If a politician came out said our entitlement programs at current levels are unsustainable (which is accurate) and we are going to reduce benefits, you don’t think there would be an uproar from voters? I have a very difficult time believing they will accept that.

It can definitely be argued there is a huge gravy train attached to the military and military spending, but we clearly see people who want military spending increased.

There is zero demand to do anything about it.

 

[Matt Dillon]

Because voters don’t demand it. We all want lots of services and prefer not to pay for them. You can’t get elected saying you’ll take things away from voters (you’ll notice Libertarians don’t win too many elections.). Even though entitlements make up the largest portion of federal spending they are called the third rail for a reason, you can’t get elected saying you’ll reduce S.S. or Medicare.

We pay for a lot of things and Congress uses it to throw parties for themselves and take vacations.

Around 25 cents for every gallon of gas sold every day in America goes to The Fed and The States apiece. That is supposed to be for road maintenance and infrastructure.

It's not being used for it. Some states are good and do. FL does, but only for THEIR roads, not county or Federal roads, they do do some interstate stuff.

 

[cawacko]

We pay for a lot of things and Congress uses it to throw parties for themselves and take vacations.

Around 25 cents for every gallon of gas sold every day in America goes to The Fed and The States apiece. That is supposed to be for road maintenance and infrastructure.

It's not being used for it. Some states are good and do. FL does, but only for THEIR roads, not county or Federal roads, they do do some interstate stuff.

We don't have $30 trillion in national debt and trillions in unfunded liabilities because Congress takes vacations and throws parties. That's not the driver here. The premise is the reduction of gov't spending and for that to occur will take support from voters, which right now we don't have.

 

[LV426]

I go back to the Libertarian Party who has run for decades that our entitlement programs need to be cut or eliminated.

And replaced with what? That's the question no Libertarian ever wants to answer because they have no ideas.

So stop elevating Libertarianism as if it's a legitimate political ideology when it fuckin' isn't.

 

[LV426]

We don't have $30 trillion in national debt and trillions in unfunded liabilities because Congress takes vacations and throws parties. That's not the driver here. The premise is the reduction of gov't spending and for that to occur will take support from voters, which right now we don't have.

Reducing government spending isn't going to reduce the debt AT ALL.

And while we may have $30T in debt, we have some things to show for it like Medicare, Social Security, our infrastructure, our military, vaccines, national parks, safety inspectors, highways, airports, seaports, tunnels, bridges, levies, dams, public utilities, the NIH, etc.

"Government Debt" is merely a scorecard of government spending.

So if we have $30T of debt, but we have things to show for that debt, then there's value.

But if we have $30T in debt and all we have to show for it is a nation crumbling from the inside, while a handful of billionaires are going into space instead of solving the problems their pursuit of wealth helped create, then clearly we need new spending priorities starting with the end of tax cuts since taxes are the primary source of revenue in this country.

Cawacko and Flash are extremists who have a very juvenile concept of government and the economy, mostly because they lived sheltered lives and glided by on privilege to attain the mediocrity they're so proud of today, but for which they should really be embarrassed because after having every lever and option open to them, their lack of ambition and work ethic translated to complacency. They want you to think they worked hard in the system to achieve the relative level of mediocrity that they wallow in today, but the feature of the system was that they didn't HAVE to work hard, and could put in a half-assed effort and still manage to rise to the level of mediocrity they think is such an achievement.

 

[Into the Night]

lets see
- its a lot more than most realize
- raising taxes does not have the effect most think
- there IS a way to fix it

There are only two ways to deal with the debt:
1) pay it back. That means cutting federal programs substantially.
2) default. A debt crash, and quite probably the end of all federal programs, plus faith in the dollar collapsing much faster than it already is.

 

[Into the Night]

I did. The guy makes a good argument that the government when it comes to debt and taxes is totally fucked up.

You can see THAT on https://www.usdebtclock.org/

 

[Into the Night]

Is the way to fix a reduction in spending such as entitlements and military? Or something different altogether?

Yes, yes, and yes.

 

[Into the Night]

Here is a Quiz:

1. Do you want to GIVE the Government Money?
2. Or, do you want to LEND the Government Money.


See. Rich People. They prefer to lend the Government money at an Interest Rate, rather than just 'give' it to the Government./B]

Most bonds are not owned by individuals, but by banks and other nations on fiat currency.

You don't get rich lending the government money.

 

[Jack]

Most bonds are not owned by individuals, but by banks and other nations on fiat currency.

Cool.

 

[Into the Night]

kinda.
10% reduction in expenditures cut any way you like but real cuts not reduction in degree of rise.
then keep this spending the same (or less) for the next 5 years.
then limit increases to a max of 3% GDP.

now this will not pay off the debt but it will prevent defaulting on the debt service and thats a foregone conclusion in the near future.

Correct. The government has never cut the budget of anything. When Congress talks about a 'cut', it is about a reduction of the increase, not a cut at all!

 

[Into the Night]

Americas standard of living will be plummeting, there is no other way out.

America's standard of living is not dependent on the federal government or it's problems.

 

[Into the Night]

It’s not really an issue of being good or bad people. Voters aren’t going to say “I don’t like that this person is going to cut entitlements but hey, he/she’s a good person so I’ll let it slide.” Doesn’t work that way.

Trump spent like a drunken sailor and very few people on the right said a word. Voters only pretend to care when they don’t like the person/party doing the spending. Voters like power not fiscal responsibility.

TDS. The President does not spend any money until Congress gives him the money to spend!.

 

[Into the Night]

Reducing government spending isn't going to reduce the debt AT ALL.

And while we may have $30T in debt, we have some things to show for it like Medicare, Social Security, our infrastructure, our military, vaccines, national parks, safety inspectors, highways, airports, seaports, tunnels, bridges, levies, dams, public utilities, the NIH, etc.

"Government Debt" is merely a scorecard of government spending.

So if we have $30T of debt, but we have things to show for that debt, then there's value.

But if we have $30T in debt and all we have to show for it is a nation crumbling from the inside, while a handful of billionaires are going into space instead of solving the problems their pursuit of wealth helped create, then clearly we need new spending priorities starting with the end of tax cuts since taxes are the primary source of revenue in this country.

Cawacko and Flash are extremists who have a very juvenile concept of government and the economy, mostly because they lived sheltered lives and glided by on privilege to attain the mediocrity they're so proud of today, but for which they should really be embarrassed because after having every lever and option open to them, their lack of ambition and work ethic translated to complacency. They want you to think they worked hard in the system to achieve the relative level of mediocrity that they wallow in today, but the feature of the system was that they didn't HAVE to work hard, and could put in a half-assed effort and still manage to rise to the level of mediocrity they think is such an achievement.

Sorry dude. The rich don't have that much money.

 

[cawacko]

TDS. The President does not spend any money until Congress gives him the money to spend!.

LOL. Yeah, because Trump ran on a platform of reducing entitlements and military spending and Congress increased it against his will and he wasn't able to veto it. Ok.

We have some $30 trillion in debt, untold trillions in unfunded liabilities and partisans like you want to claim "my guy isn't responsible". Exact reason we're in the position we are.