APP - 82 million year old fossil being excavated

Don Quixote

Don Quixote

cancer survivor
Contributor
tell that to the creationists

Eighty-two million years ago, the mosasaur terrorized the seas with its imposing size and snake-like jaws that could gobble human-sized prey up in one bite.
Today, the extinct marine reptile is a source of fascination for members of the Dallas Paleontological Society, who have spent the last four years excavating and carefully chipping away at limestone to recover the bones of the vicious animal, which dates back to the Cretaceous period and has been found around the world.
This particular fossil of the 40-to-45-foot-long mosasaur was discovered in a creek in Garland, Texas, in 2008, said Darlene Sumerfelt, a volunteer who has been working on the project.
"Most of the bones were embedded in limestone so they had to be excavated under harsh conditions. We used drill hammers to cut chunks in the limestone and then bring it back to the lab to be prepped," she said. "It's a long process."
The excavation out of the creek took 750 hours, while volunteers from the Dallas Paleontological Society have spent more than 2,000 hours working with slow and steady hands to uncover bones embedded in the limestone, Sumerfelt said.
"You have to go down hour by hour to slowly look for the bone, then you try to figure out what the bone is and slowly bring it out," Sumerfelt said. "We used solidifying agents because the bone is very fragile. It will split, chip and break very easily."
After years of dedication, the group hopes to finish the jaw by 2013, Sumerfelt said. They will then send the estimated 60 percent to 70 percent they have recovered of the sea monster to be displayed at the Heard Museum in McKinney, Texas.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blo...a-monster-220550636--abc-news-topstories.html
 
Don Quixote said:
tell that to the creationists

Eighty-two million years ago, the mosasaur terrorized the seas with its imposing size and snake-like jaws that could gobble human-sized prey up in one bite.
Today, the extinct marine reptile is a source of fascination for members of the Dallas Paleontological Society, who have spent the last four years excavating and carefully chipping away at limestone to recover the bones of the vicious animal, which dates back to the Cretaceous period and has been found around the world.
This particular fossil of the 40-to-45-foot-long mosasaur was discovered in a creek in Garland, Texas, in 2008, said Darlene Sumerfelt, a volunteer who has been working on the project.
"Most of the bones were embedded in limestone so they had to be excavated under harsh conditions. We used drill hammers to cut chunks in the limestone and then bring it back to the lab to be prepped," she said. "It's a long process."
The excavation out of the creek took 750 hours, while volunteers from the Dallas Paleontological Society have spent more than 2,000 hours working with slow and steady hands to uncover bones embedded in the limestone, Sumerfelt said.
"You have to go down hour by hour to slowly look for the bone, then you try to figure out what the bone is and slowly bring it out," Sumerfelt said. "We used solidifying agents because the bone is very fragile. It will split, chip and break very easily."
After years of dedication, the group hopes to finish the jaw by 2013, Sumerfelt said. They will then send the estimated 60 percent to 70 percent they have recovered of the sea monster to be displayed at the Heard Museum in McKinney, Texas.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blo...a-monster-220550636--abc-news-topstories.html
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Why would you tell this to a creationist? Life is to short and there's far to much fascinating scientific work to be done to waste your time on people who are willfully ignorant.
 
Don Quixote said:
tell that to the creationists

Eighty-two million years ago, the mosasaur terrorized the seas with its imposing size and snake-like jaws that could gobble human-sized prey up in one bite.
Today, the extinct marine reptile is a source of fascination for members of the Dallas Paleontological Society, who have spent the last four years excavating and carefully chipping away at limestone to recover the bones of the vicious animal, which dates back to the Cretaceous period and has been found around the world.
This particular fossil of the 40-to-45-foot-long mosasaur was discovered in a creek in Garland, Texas, in 2008, said Darlene Sumerfelt, a volunteer who has been working on the project.
"Most of the bones were embedded in limestone so they had to be excavated under harsh conditions. We used drill hammers to cut chunks in the limestone and then bring it back to the lab to be prepped," she said. "It's a long process."
The excavation out of the creek took 750 hours, while volunteers from the Dallas Paleontological Society have spent more than 2,000 hours working with slow and steady hands to uncover bones embedded in the limestone, Sumerfelt said.
"You have to go down hour by hour to slowly look for the bone, then you try to figure out what the bone is and slowly bring it out," Sumerfelt said. "We used solidifying agents because the bone is very fragile. It will split, chip and break very easily."
After years of dedication, the group hopes to finish the jaw by 2013, Sumerfelt said. They will then send the estimated 60 percent to 70 percent they have recovered of the sea monster to be displayed at the Heard Museum in McKinney, Texas.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blo...a-monster-220550636--abc-news-topstories.html
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Tch tch. How dumb can you be. The Tooth fairy put it there. When they finally get it out they will find a dollar under their pillows as proof the tooth fairy exists.
 
Where are the pictures? Why aren't there more photos of this? I hadn't heard about this particular fossil, Thanks for posting about it.
 
Not to get into a "Biblical" debate here, but I happen to know some Christians believe the Bible's account of creation in Genesis a little differently than you neanderthals are interpreting it. For instance, Genesis speaks of God "creating man in his own image" but it doesn't really state what was here before this happened. Later, he specifically instructs Adam and Eve (the original two people he created in his image) to go out at "replenish" the Earth. To "replenish" something, means something existed before and you are making it plentiful again. One particular reverend I know, explained this to me once. There may have indeed been "men" on Earth before the creation of Adam and Eve, but they weren't in God's image. Perhaps the "creation" of man was merely God interjecting his image into whatever existed before? Bestowing "man" with a spiritual enlightenment and understanding he was lacking previously.

Digging up old fossils doesn't negate creationism, and it certainly wouldn't negate the theory I just articulated. However, it is important to note, once again you are running to science and discovery in an attempt to refute a possibility which science doesn't and can't refute. This is the antithesis of the Scientific Method, and very much similar to religious faith and acceptance of spiritual beliefs. You have abandoned science in order to have faith in a belief or conclusion... science doesn't draw these conclusions, you do.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
TA-DA

And that's it exactly.
I'm not convinced that God's day is the same as oiur 24 hr day.
God's day could be a million years or more.
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It's not just a "God's Day" thing, it's also an important translational difference between Hebrew and English. The word used for "day" in Hebrew (Yom), means the same as our word for "era" or period of time. It was often used to describe a day, but it could also describe several days, a week or a season, interchangeably. Keeping in mind that no one was around to keep track of specific events on a daily basis and record them for posterity (since we didn't understand what that meant yet), and many of the stories had been passed down through generations from one to another, until it was finally transcribed into literature; We have to interpret "Day" to mean an unspecified period of time or "era" in which the events took place, the chronology and format are understood literally, but the measure of time as "Days" is more for clarity in understanding, and not intended to be an accurate accounting of actual or precise time. The "First Day" could have been billions of years, the "Second Day" could have been 24hrs., and the "Third Day" could have been 10k years... we don't know, they didn't know when they wrote it. It is presented this way for understanding of the story, and as often was the case in the days before motion pictures, it gives a visual flair, and evokes an essence of imagination. We can relate to "Days" as humans, therefore, "Days" is what was used to tell the story.
 
Dixie said:
It's not just a "God's Day" thing, it's also an important translational difference between Hebrew and English. The word used for "day" in Hebrew (Yom), means the same as our word for "era" or period of time. It was often used to describe a day, but it could also describe several days, a week or a season, interchangeably. Keeping in mind that no one was around to keep track of specific events on a daily basis and record them for posterity (since we didn't understand what that meant yet), and many of the stories had been passed down through generations from one to another, until it was finally transcribed into literature; We have to interpret "Day" to mean an unspecified period of time or "era" in which the events took place, the chronology and format are understood literally, but the measure of time as "Days" is more for clarity in understanding, and not intended to be an accurate accounting of actual or precise time. The "First Day" could have been billions of years, the "Second Day" could have been 24hrs., and the "Third Day" could have been 10k years... we don't know, they didn't know when they wrote it. It is presented this way for understanding of the story, and as often was the case in the days before motion pictures, it gives a visual flair, and evokes an essence of imagination. We can relate to "Days" as humans, therefore, "Days" is what was used to tell the story.
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I agree with the WHY it was used; because you have to verse it in a way that people will understand.
My disagreement is with those who want to still continue try and equate God's day to 24 hrs.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
I agree with the WHY it was used; because you have to verse it in a way that people will understand.
My disagreement is with those who want to still continue try and equate God's day to 24 hrs.
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Well the God-deniers start from a false premise of logic anyway, they want to presume there could ever be any physical evidence of God. This is the foundation for their belief that God doesn't exist, lack of physical evidence. To logically evaluate whether a spiritual entity exists, you have to first define 'exist' and what is meant by that. No one except God-deniers want to entertain that a physical God exists. So to 'exist' has to be defined as something other than physical existence, in order to apply it to God. This means we have to be willing to accept spiritual evidence instead of physical, because God is a spiritual entity, his 'existence' would be purely in a spiritual sense. The problem for the God-deniers is, the spiritual evidence is overwhelming, so they have to reject it, and they do this by assuming a false premise of logic to start with.
 
Dixie said:
Well the God-deniers start from a false premise of logic anyway, they want to presume there could ever be any physical evidence of God. This is the foundation for their belief that God doesn't exist, lack of physical evidence. To logically evaluate whether a spiritual entity exists, you have to first define 'exist' and what is meant by that. No one except God-deniers want to entertain that a physical God exists. So to 'exist' has to be defined as something other than physical existence, in order to apply it to God. This means we have to be willing to accept spiritual evidence instead of physical, because God is a spiritual entity, his 'existence' would be purely in a spiritual sense. The problem for the God-deniers is, the spiritual evidence is overwhelming, so they have to reject it, and they do this by assuming a false premise of logic to start with.
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No Dixie. You have it wrong. The world exists and life has evolved. The earth has existed for about 13 bn years. Life slowly evolved from cell to replicating cell. Life forms thrived for millions of years. Dinosaurs, the most successful creatures to have evolved lived for something like 120 million years. Homo Sapiens developed after several other apes, significantly chimpanzees and bonobos. None of these lifeforms had the intellect to recognise their own existence apart from chimpanzees and bonobos and some other apes. Several hominids evolved culminating in Neanderthals and the Homo sapiens about 160 thousand years ago. Homo sapiens did not leave Africa until about 60,000 years ago.

So at what point in all this did a belief in a god or gods become necessary/convenient? 60,000 years ago? 160,000 years ago? Who was running the show for the previous thirteen and a quarter BILLION years?

For most of the existence of this planet no questions were asked that required the answer 'god did it'.

You talk of god deniers as if people who do not accept a theistic approach are the odd ones. But it is the god believers who are the new comers, they are the odd ones.

People who accept life as it is and strive to answer the questions life poses are not 'god deniers' any more than they are 'fairy deniers' or magic deniers. Denial doesn't come into it. The status quo is evolved existence. God believers need to ask themselves the questions.

The rest of us are just fine as we are.

The foundation of the god believers belief is that everything they see about them, everything they experience, every emotion that drives them forward (or backwards) is supplied by an imaginary figure who was created to fill the gaps in man's knowledge. Ten thousand years ago there was more 'gap' than knowledge. Two thousand years ago there was more 'gap' than knowledge, but today that ratio has been reversed. There are very few (comparitively) gaps and we now know that with man's evolved intellect those gaps will be steadily reduced, never reaching 100% of course.
 
Lowaicue said:
No Dixie. You have it wrong.
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Oh really? Well, I am glad we have you here to straighten me all out! Let's begin...

The world exists and life has evolved.
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Fairly obvious, but a little ubiquitous. Where did it all come from and what was here before? How did all these miraculous life-building elements know to coalesce here and start evolving? Chance? Fluke? Luck? Wow!

The earth has existed for about 13 bn years.
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Are you sure about that? Could it be 14 billion instead? A billion years is a pretty significant amount of time to be off by. But again, where did it come from? All of this Earth with it's magical life-building elements just mystically formed out of the void of nothingness?

Life slowly evolved from cell to replicating cell. Life forms thrived for millions of years.
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It's a pretty amazing chain of events to have "just happened" with nothing but chance guiding the way. I would think the scientist in you would balk at the sheer number of things which had to happen in specific order at specific times, to make all of this possible. What are the odds that we just so happened to end up with every single element needed to form itself into billions of life forms, many of them interdependent on each other to exist? Yet, with no explanation whatsoever for this, it's what you believe. It seems you are no different than the "God did it" people, you just replace "God" with "Science." Either way, it comes down to a matter of faith.

Dinosaurs, the most successful creatures to have evolved lived for something like 120 million years.
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And you are sure of this, because? Seems like, if you could be off by a billion years on the age of Earth, you might also be off on 120 million years as well. But still... all the elements needed for dinosaurs just happened to coalesce here in this one spot of the universe, with no explanation or reason, but just because that's what happened, because that's what you say happened? No particular reason why, it just did... that sounds a lot like faith, again. I thought you believed in Science? Oh that's right, science doesn't explain everything, does it?

Homo Sapiens developed after several other apes, significantly chimpanzees and bonobos.
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The problem is, you just don't have any evidence of cross-genus speciation, and you can't reproduce this theory in a lab environment. Nevertheless, this must have happened without divine intervention, even though you can't explain why or how exactly. Maybe whatever magic chance fairy bestowed the planet with life-teaming elements, also had a hand in this process of cross-genus evolution, and no longer is needed? Science is really a baffling thing sometimes, isn't it?

None of these lifeforms had the intellect to recognise their own existence apart from chimpanzees and bonobos and some other apes.
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So all of the living things that chimps and apes needed to sustain life, weren't aware they exited or needed to exist? Again, it is fascinating this all happened by fluke or chance, without any guiding force whatsoever.

Several hominids evolved culminating in Neanderthals and the Homo sapiens about 160 thousand years ago. Homo sapiens did not leave Africa until about 60,000 years ago.
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Right... from this magical cross-genus evolution you have no proof of and can't replicate in a lab environment... gotchya!

So at what point in all this did a belief in a god or gods become necessary/convenient? 60,000 years ago? 160,000 years ago? Who was running the show for the previous thirteen and a quarter BILLION years?
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I don't know, you tell me? Chance? Fluke? Luck? If the notion that things "just happened" will suffice today, why wouldn't this have sufficed years ago as well? Surely we didn't invent God to have faith in because we didn't know how to invent science to have faith in.

For most of the existence of this planet no questions were asked that required the answer 'god did it'.
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And again, you KNOW this, because... ?

You talk of god deniers as if people who do not accept a theistic approach are the odd ones. But it is the god believers who are the new comers, they are the odd ones.
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Not really, spiritual belief FAR out-dates Science. And why are you interjecting "theism" here? No one mentioned theistic belief, so you must just automatically assume "God" can ONLY be a theistic concept, and all other possibility is impossible. I thought science was all about keeping the doors of possibility open and not drawing conclusion? It seems you are drawing a LOT of conclusions for a person who believes in Science.

People who accept life as it is and strive to answer the questions life poses are not 'god deniers' any more than they are 'fairy deniers' or magic deniers. Denial doesn't come into it. The status quo is evolved existence. God believers need to ask themselves the questions.
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Ahh, so the God-deniers can accept life as it is and strive to answer questions it can't answer, believing that Science can explain the things it can't explain, and that kind of faith is okay, but faith in a supernatural force is off the table? It's been my experience that God-believers don't have to ask questions, they have the same general answer as you have. The difference is, they believe an intelligent supernatural force is responsible, and you believe it all just happened by chance and circumstance. Considering the trillions of possibilities and countless unlikely events, it's a bit preposterous to believe it all just happened by chance. Even IF this is what you have faith in, it's pretty remarkable to imagine all the events and things happening without explanation, culminating in what we have today.

The rest of us are just fine as we are.
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Which begs the question, why would we have needed to invent God? IF we are fine as we are, and science can explain it all, then why hasn't human spiritual belief fizzled out with the advent of science? Could it be that even though science is useful at explaining how many things happen, it is not equipped to explain WHY? Why do two hydrogen molecules and one oxygen molecule make water? We know they do, science tells us they do, but WHY? We know how sunlight provides the energy for photosynthesis, but WHY? We can even theorize on how the universe was formed from a Big Bang, but WHY?

The foundation of the god believers belief is that everything they see about them, everything they experience, every emotion that drives them forward (or backwards) is supplied by an imaginary figure who was created to fill the gaps in man's knowledge.
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When you say "imaginary figure" it denotes a tone of sarcastic disbelief in a physical presence that doesn't exist. God is not a "figure" of any kind, in the physical sense. God-deniers often make the mistake of attributing physical characteristic to God, because this is how they can use physical science to deny God exists. If God existed in a physical sense, we could prove God's existence with physical science, or this would at least be a possibility. And again, IF God were invented to fill the gaps, why hasn't belief in God dwindled with the advent of Science? We find instead, that just as many people have faith in something greater than self as they ever have. Some have even placed their faith in Science itself, like you.

Ten thousand years ago there was more 'gap' than knowledge. Two thousand years ago there was more 'gap' than knowledge, but today that ratio has been reversed. There are very few (comparitively) gaps and we now know that with man's evolved intellect those gaps will be steadily reduced, never reaching 100% of course.
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Of course! You always have the convenient crutch that Science can't explain all! We must simply have FAITH in Science. You see, your FAITH is not much different than the God-believers, you simply call your God by another name. The problem is, your "God" was created by man and is admittedly fallible and inadequate to explain all kinds of things. My God is an ever-present energy force which has always been here, which made science and the laws of the universe possible. My God doesn't have a physical existence, just as a dream or thought doesn't have a physical existence. Do dreams and thoughts exist?
 
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