A basic economic issue our society has lost its mind on

Craig234

Verified User
When too few have too much, it creates oppression, tyranny, it destroys democracy, it creates economic slavery, it reduces growth and innovation, it weakens the wealth of the public so they can buy fewer goods and increases the percent of people who need to find employment by serving the wealthy, it lowers wages and political rights, and much more.

Many people simply don't have any idea about this issue, and have simplistic notions, such as 'private wealth good, government and taxes bad'.That's as sophisticated as they get. And that view is heavily promoted to them by the wealthy interests.

When any challenge to unlimited concentration of wealth is brought up all they can understand is communism and Mao and Stalin and Castro, and say 'nope'.

All 'handouts' are viewed as waste and wrong except in cases like a paralyzed person. They assume that if the 'handouts' aren't there, the people will become middle class workers or at least make a decent living.

They simply do not understand at all how the economy works and the issues with the few being able to direct so much income to themselves. They don't understand what plutocracy is, why it's bad, or that it's being fought for hard, and happening. To them, the word plutocracy is like Karl Marx ranting about capitalists, nutty left-wing stuff.

A problem with their ignorance is that they simply can't view any need for taxing the rich to balance society and counter the rich receiving so large a share of the income. In their ignorance they can only think that is 'theft' and 'greed' to take other people's money.

Here's an example of what that mentality leads to. In come countries half a century ago, the main industry would be agriculture, like a fruit. An American company would buy practically all the farmable land, pushing families off. It would hire the workers it needed at low wages, expendable and easily replaced, and leave the rest to starve.

Even land it didn't use, it would own and keep idle and prevent the hungry people from farming, because it didn't want any risk of competition.

It would use its wealth to install a government that worked for it, and pay Washington to protect it. it would have its military and police serving the interests of the company, not the people.

If workers tried to grow on that land, they'd be arrested. If they resisted violently or with sabotage, they'd be called terrorists and killed. If there were elections and someone who served the people more were elected, they might be overthrown, possibly by the US, such as the leader of Guatemala was when he tried to have some land reform.


Little did he know, I wonder, that the arrangement for all the land in his country to be owned by a US company had been arranged by the US Secretary of State and his brother, the head of the CIA, and that they and many other senior officials had financial stakes in the company.

It was in this environment that John Kennedy said, "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable."

Yes, what was needed was the government to step in, and implement land reform - to take unused land and let the people live and farm on it. Not to simply look only at the wealth of the company and say they could have it all regardless of the impact on the people.

But today, so many Americans have no idea about the problem of too much concentration of wealth, of why the government has a needed role in representing the interests of the public against the wealthy, the need for a balance in the distribution in wealth.

That balance can be improved by a number of measures, including taxation and labor rights and public investment in things like education, and simply in strong democracy so that government represents voters instead of rich donors.

For much of American history, there was no question about these issues. Even if the powers didn't follow them they at least paid them lip service - look how 'collectivist' and 'socialist' our core democratic slogans have been - 'of the people, by the people, for the people', 'e pluribus unum' (from the many, one), 'with liberty and justice for all', etc.

At times, the people have acted on these principles - the progressive movement of the early 20th century against the gilded age, the election of a Democratic super-majority in response to the Great Depression that radically changed our government (for the better), etc.

But why has America lost its mind on the basic idea that too much for too few is a problem? Because there has been a massive propaganda campaign to sell the public on the libertarian and plutocratic ideology, with 'think tanks' and mass media bombarding the messages 24x7, until now it's the accepted 'normal' politics. The Republican Party has been taken over and some Democrats.

Who cares if 90% of the media is owned by a handful of corporations? The public just knows they like their big corporation products, their big corporation entertainment, and don't like politics.

The Republicans just cut $1 trillion from Medicaid, in order to reduce taxes on the rich. Why? Because they opposed Democrats' Medicaid expansion to everyone by challenging it in court; and when they won a partial victory to let states decide whether to expand Medicaid, most Republican states decided not to - so cutting the $1 trillion comes almost entirely from Democratic states.

Pure partisan politics at the expense of millions of people's healthcare who can least afford it. Many Americans will be killed by that action alone.

How many times can taxes on the rich be lowered and allowed by cutting spending on the public and adding to the debt and raising taxes on the public? What will it take for the American people to realize the policies will bring plutocracy?

People need to learn the simple idea that too much inequality is a disaster and needs to be counteracted by the people and the government, and that it's neither wrong nor theft to do so.

Or, they can learn to be serfs again, as mankind has usually been before the liberal American politics created a middle class like never before. At some point, even lip service won't be needed.
 
When too few have too much, it creates oppression, tyranny, it destroys democracy, it creates economic slavery, it reduces growth and innovation, it weakens the wealth of the public so they can buy fewer goods and increases the percent of people who need to find employment by serving the wealthy, it lowers wages and political rights, and much more.

Many people simply don't have any idea about this issue, and have simplistic notions, such as 'private wealth good, government and taxes bad'.That's as sophisticated as they get. And that view is heavily promoted to them by the wealthy interests.

When any challenge to unlimited concentration of wealth is brought up all they can understand is communism and Mao and Stalin and Castro, and say 'nope'.

All 'handouts' are viewed as waste and wrong except in cases like a paralyzed person. They assume that if the 'handouts' aren't there, the people will become middle class workers or at least make a decent living.

They simply do not understand at all how the economy works and the issues with the few being able to direct so much income to themselves. They don't understand what plutocracy is, why it's bad, or that it's being fought for hard, and happening. To them, the word plutocracy is like Karl Marx ranting about capitalists, nutty left-wing stuff.

A problem with their ignorance is that they simply can't view any need for taxing the rich to balance society and counter the rich receiving so large a share of the income. In their ignorance they can only think that is 'theft' and 'greed' to take other people's money.

Here's an example of what that mentality leads to. In come countries half a century ago, the main industry would be agriculture, like a fruit. An American company would buy practically all the farmable land, pushing families off. It would hire the workers it needed at low wages, expendable and easily replaced, and leave the rest to starve.

Even land it didn't use, it would own and keep idle and prevent the hungry people from farming, because it didn't want any risk of competition.

It would use its wealth to install a government that worked for it, and pay Washington to protect it. it would have its military and police serving the interests of the company, not the people.

If workers tried to grow on that land, they'd be arrested. If they resisted violently or with sabotage, they'd be called terrorists and killed. If there were elections and someone who served the people more were elected, they might be overthrown, possibly by the US, such as the leader of Guatemala was when he tried to have some land reform.


Little did he know, I wonder, that the arrangement for all the land in his country to be owned by a US company had been arranged by the US Secretary of State and his brother, the head of the CIA, and that they and many other senior officials had financial stakes in the company.

It was in this environment that John Kennedy said, "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable."

Yes, what was needed was the government to step in, and implement land reform - to take unused land and let the people live and farm on it. Not to simply look only at the wealth of the company and say they could have it all regardless of the impact on the people.

But today, so many Americans have no idea about the problem of too much concentration of wealth, of why the government has a needed role in representing the interests of the public against the wealthy, the need for a balance in the distribution in wealth.

That balance can be improved by a number of measures, including taxation and labor rights and public investment in things like education, and simply in strong democracy so that government represents voters instead of rich donors.

For much of American history, there was no question about these issues. Even if the powers didn't follow them they at least paid them lip service - look how 'collectivist' and 'socialist' our core democratic slogans have been - 'of the people, by the people, for the people', 'e pluribus unum' (from the many, one), 'with liberty and justice for all', etc.

At times, the people have acted on these principles - the progressive movement of the early 20th century against the gilded age, the election of a Democratic super-majority in response to the Great Depression that radically changed our government (for the better), etc.

But why has America lost its mind on the basic idea that too much for too few is a problem? Because there has been a massive propaganda campaign to sell the public on the libertarian and plutocratic ideology, with 'think tanks' and mass media bombarding the messages 24x7, until now it's the accepted 'normal' politics. The Republican Party has been taken over and some Democrats.

Who cares if 90% of the media is owned by a handful of corporations? The public just knows they like their big corporation products, their big corporation entertainment, and don't like politics.

The Republicans just cut $1 trillion from Medicaid, in order to reduce taxes on the rich. Why? Because they opposed Democrats' Medicaid expansion to everyone by challenging it in court; and when they won a partial victory to let states decide whether to expand Medicaid, most Republican states decided not to - so cutting the $1 trillion comes almost entirely from Democratic states.

Pure partisan politics at the expense of millions of people's healthcare who can least afford it. Many Americans will be killed by that action alone.

How many times can taxes on the rich be lowered and allowed by cutting spending on the public and adding to the debt and raising taxes on the public? What will it take for the American people to realize the policies will bring plutocracy?

People need to learn the simple idea that too much inequality is a disaster and needs to be counteracted by the people and the government, and that it's neither wrong nor theft to do so.

Or, they can learn to be serfs again, as mankind has usually been before the liberal American politics created a middle class like never before. At some point, even lip service won't be needed.

"All 'handouts' are viewed as waste and wrong except in cases like a paralyzed person. They assume that if the 'handouts' aren't there, the people will become middle class workers or at least make a decent living."

There are two types of people when it comes to handouts. Those that truly can't work/who are in their situation not of their own doing OR those that won't work/whose choices caused their situation. For the former, there is no contention. For the latter, I don't assume anything nor do I give a shit about them. If they won't do for themselves or demand that others pay for their poor choices in life, they can do without as far as I'm concerned.

"A problem with their ignorance is that they simply can't view any need for taxing the rich to balance society and counter the rich receiving so large a share of the income. In their ignorance they can only think that is 'theft' and 'greed' to take other people's money."

You don't balance society by taking from those that earned and giving it to those that refuse to earn. Why shouldn't those that earn it get a very large share of it? If you take something you didn't earn and that isn't yours, it's theft. If you want something someone else earned because you won't do it yourself, that's greedy.

"That balance can be improved by a number of measures, including taxation and labor rights and public investment in things like education, and simply in strong democracy so that government represents voters instead of rich donors."

If you believe in taxation, when are you going to support the half that don't pay income taxes paying any? How many of the freeloaders on the low end get something funded from a pot to which they don't contribute? If they're getting social welfare, it's ALL of them. As for investing in education, I do. I pay for my kid's college, that is, the very little for which EARNED scholarships didn't pay. If a parent won't invest their own kids when it comes to college, why the fuck is it anyone else's place to do it for such a poor investment?
 
I predict the pendulum will swing way the other way after the Trump disaster,to Democratic Socialism when the Millenniums become the dominant generation.
 
I predict the pendulum will swing way the other way after the Trump disaster,to Democratic Socialism when the Millenniums become the dominant generation.

That would Exhibit A that they don't teach history in our schools if that happens
 
That would Exhibit A that they don't teach history in our schools if that happens

Quite the opposite. They'd learn that the only right turns the country has taken were in the Teddy and Franklin Roosevelt eras, and the 60's. And what a disaster every Republican has been for the people.
 
We have an economy based on consumption. People need disposable income so the economy can work. This stuff isnt that hard to figure out .
 
I predict the pendulum will swing way the other way after the Trump disaster,to Democratic Socialism when the Millenniums become the dominant generation.

We were talking about this in the car on the drive home yesterday. That's exactly what my husband believes as well. He has very little regard for what he calls the "ignorant rural" voters who disdain education and all things that they don't understand. He was a farm boy who spent his first two decades among them. He believes that electing Trump was the last hurrah for them, and that come 2020 the pendulum will swing back towards progressive values. Hope he's right.
 
We have an economy based on consumption. People need disposable income so the economy can work. This stuff isnt that hard to figure out .

Exactly. Even the Republitards figured that out, which is why they threw a few crumbs at the middle class when crafting their Make The Rich Even Richer tax scheme. Notice how *their* benefits are eternal, while ours decrease until they vanish in 2025? They think that they just bought the 2018 mid-term elections with that.
 
Quite the opposite. They'd learn that the only right turns the country has taken were in the Teddy and Franklin Roosevelt eras, and the 60's. And what a disaster every Republican has been for the people.

I don't know if pointing to the Great Depression and saying that is economic policy we should immulate is what they are looking to be taught. Keynesians last hurrah was in the '60's so I understand the desire for you to go back there
 
We were talking about this in the car on the drive home yesterday. That's exactly what my husband believes as well. He has very little regard for what he calls the "ignorant rural" voters who disdain education and all things that they don't understand. He was a farm boy who spent his first two decades among them. He believes that electing Trump was the last hurrah for them, and that come 2020 the pendulum will swing back towards progressive values. Hope he's right.

Is it surprising rural farm voters don't support people who call them ignorant and deplorable?

It's like certain white republicans who call black voters the n word then act surprised/mad when they don't vote republican.
 
Exactly. Even the Republitards figured that out, which is why they threw a few crumbs at the middle class when crafting their Make The Rich Even Richer tax scheme. Notice how *their* benefits are eternal, while ours decrease until they vanish in 2025? They think that they just bought the 2018 mid-term elections with that.

The marginal rates decrease in 2025 because that was the only way it could pass. Who would be in office in 2025 that you think would let those rates rise back to today's amounts?
 
We were talking about this in the car on the drive home yesterday. That's exactly what my husband believes as well. He has very little regard for what he calls the "ignorant rural" voters who disdain education and all things that they don't understand. He was a farm boy who spent his first two decades among them. He believes that electing Trump was the last hurrah for them, and that come 2020 the pendulum will swing back towards progressive values. Hope he's right.
I love my rural family members, but they have to learn the hard way, they often vote against their own best interests because of wedge issues. They also have a lot of biogtry, it is one of the reasons I left Kansas and my hometown is considered more progressive then surrounding areas.
 
I don't know if pointing to the Great Depression and saying that is economic policy we should immulate is what they are looking to be taught. Keynesians last hurrah was in the '60's so I understand the desire for you to go back there

when Bush crashed the economy Keynesian economics is what was used to turn it back arround you stupid little bot

quit trying to destroy the world your daughter will have to live in
 
Is it surprising rural farm voters don't support people who call them ignorant and deplorable?

It's like certain white republicans who call black voters the n word then act surprised/mad when they don't vote republican.

but you guys keep saying black people vote Democratic because they are lazy and want handouts remember
 
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