A Dixie Poll

[Lao Tse]

3dud has gotten dumber.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

The fact that the Northern economies all took off after the war, thanks to their own industrial might proves that cotton was actually slowing them down. The South had 70 years to build up its industrial base, during which time North got on it, and by the mid-1830s had successfully accomplished that goal.

Well the FACT is, the US went into a depression in the 1890s, and until the Great Depression, it was the worst depression of our history, so there goes your argument... say buh-bye!

I still don't get your logic... you are saying we should have abandoned our leading export and biggest money maker? And why do you keep talking like "The South" was a separate entity from "The North" before the Civil War? Did you learn that in public school? Because, from my educational understanding, The South was part of the United States until 1861.

Cotton.... King Cotton... was our #1 export and leading money maker, not just "The South" but for ALL of America, that was the case, that was the reality. You can yammer your ignorance all you like, the South could have industrialized all it liked, and cotton would have still been our leading money maker. We supplied like 80% of the world's cotton! You are suggesting that sane rational men, should have ABANDONED cotton production? And replaced it with WHAT? All you have mentioned is "industrialization" but of WHAT? The leading industrialization of the time, was weaving cotton into fabric! Without cotton, you didn't have any "industrialization" because we didn't make much of anything else at that time.

 

[Cypress]

Cotton.... King Cotton... was our #1 export and leading money maker, not just "The South" but for ALL of America, that was the case, that was the reality. You can yammer your ignorance all you like, the South could have industrialized all it liked, and cotton would have still been our leading money maker.

We supplied like 80% of the world's cotton!

I wonder if it had anything to do with having a vast pool of free, slave labor.....plus, the added perk of a bevy of black females your ancestors could rape at will without fear of legal sanction?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

I wonder if it had anything to do with having a vast pool of free, slave labor.....plus, the added perk of a bevy of black females your ancestors could rape at will without fear of legal sanction?

Regardless, it was THE #1 product for America. Without cotton, there would have been no jobs in the North, because textile mills required cotton to operate. Perhaps that is why every US president from Washington to Lincoln, condoned and tolerated slavery in America?

Oh, and once again, MY ancestors never owned slaves or knew anyone who did. My grandmother knew a man who was the son of a former slave, he was a sharecropper, she picked cotton for him and raised her 7 children through the Great Depression thanks to him giving her the job.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

3dud has gotten dumber.

What you're seeing is not "dumbness" it is ignorant bigotry. Ironically, it is the same kind of ignorant bigotry which oppressed the black race for centuries. You see, he has constructed a false reality in his mind, and it can't be supported with historical facts.

 

[KingCondanomation]

they fought against this country and its principles. they were traitors. and racist hill billy scum

They weren't traitors to the founding notions of America. I'm sure some were racist, I think a lot of the north was too.

"The future inhabitants of [both] the Atlantic and Mississippi states will be our sons. We think we see their happiness in their union, and we wish it. Events may prove otherwise; and if they see their interest in separating why should we take sides? God bless them both, and keep them in union if it be for their good, but separate them if it be better." – Thomas Jefferson


I think the civil war was primarily a result of 2 culturally regional peoples wanting to war against each other.
Do you really think Joe Blow from Mass would have given a shit about freeing slaves?
Do you really think Joe Blow from Alabama who in all likelihood never owner nor would be rich enough to own a slave gave a shit about enforcing slavery?
It was more a chance for southerners to stick it to the yankees and yankees to stick it to southerners.
For most people on both sides anyway.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

I think the civil war was primarily a result of 2 culturally regional peoples wanting to war against each other.

While I think there was always the rivalry between North and South, I am not sure this was the "reason" for the Civil War. What we have to remember is, war is almost always fought over a variety of issues, it's almost never one single thing, especially something as trivial as a jealous rivalry. This may have well fueled the fire, but I don't believe it was the catalyst.

Ironically, I think the main reason was akin to what we are seeing today with Health Care reform. The Federal Government overstepping their authority and limits on power, to dictate what individuals "shall" and "shall not" do. This authority is left to the states, according to our Constitution, and NOT the US Government. The Civil War was fought because some states refused to bow to Federal encroachment on their individual rights. Slaves were only an issue because slaves had been deemed "property" by the US court! Southerner's didn't decide that slaves were property against the protests of the North, but that is what many nitwit bigots here would have us believe.

We all bear some responsibility for the institution of slavery in America, but what we see in this thread and others, is certain people who want to 'absolve' themselves of any responsibility, by rewriting history and blaming slavery on the South. As if the North would have never condoned such a thing, and had been totally opposed to it from the start! The North depended on Southern cotton just as much as the South, and they condoned and accepted the practice of slavery through all the decades leading up to the Civil War. In the end, the Emancipation Proclamation was something Lincoln did out of sheer desperation. The war was not going well, the Union was losing, and people up North were pissed about being at war... New York threatened secession over it! The nation was being literally ripped apart, and for a while, it looked as if the CSA may prevail in the Civil War. In an attempt to "rally" his forces and give a "cause" to the war for people to rally behind, Lincoln proposed emancipation. Suddenly, the war became about more than whipping the Southern boys, it was a moral cause worth fighting for.

The victors write the history books, and nowadays, children are 'educated' that the Civil War was about slavery, when that was simply not the case. The freeing of the slaves didn't become an issue until late in the war, when the US was losing, and Lincoln HAD to find some way to rally the public. In the beginning, Lincoln's very words will bear that out... he said, 'If I can end this war by freeing the slaves, I would free the slaves. If I can end this war by keeping slavery, I would keep slavery.' Before the war, Lincoln was actively working on a compromise with the Southern states, which would have allowed slavery to legally continue in the United States until 1911! THAT's how much Lincoln "cared" about the issue of slavery!

 

[Canceled2]

While I think there was always the rivalry between North and South, I am not sure this was the "reason" for the Civil War. What we have to remember is, war is almost always fought over a variety of issues, it's almost never one single thing, especially something as trivial as a jealous rivalry. This may have well fueled the fire, but I don't believe it was the catalyst.

Ironically, I think the main reason was akin to what we are seeing today with Health Care reform. The Federal Government overstepping their authority and limits on power, to dictate what individuals "shall" and "shall not" do. This authority is left to the states, according to our Constitution, and NOT the US Government. The Civil War was fought because some states refused to bow to Federal encroachment on their individual rights. Slaves were only an issue because slaves had been deemed "property" by the US court! Southerner's didn't decide that slaves were property against the protests of the North, but that is what many nitwit bigots here would have us believe.

We all bear some responsibility for the institution of slavery in America, but what we see in this thread and others, is certain people who want to 'absolve' themselves of any responsibility, by rewriting history and blaming slavery on the South. As if the North would have never condoned such a thing, and had been totally opposed to it from the start! The North depended on Southern cotton just as much as the South, and they condoned and accepted the practice of slavery through all the decades leading up to the Civil War. In the end, the Emancipation Proclamation was something Lincoln did out of sheer desperation. The war was not going well, the Union was losing, and people up North were pissed about being at war... New York threatened secession over it! The nation was being literally ripped apart, and for a while, it looked as if the CSA may prevail in the Civil War. In an attempt to "rally" his forces and give a "cause" to the war for people to rally behind, Lincoln proposed emancipation. Suddenly, the war became about more than whipping the Southern boys, it was a moral cause worth fighting for.

The victors write the history books, and nowadays, children are 'educated' that the Civil War was about slavery, when that was simply not the case. The freeing of the slaves didn't become an issue until late in the war, when the US was losing, and Lincoln HAD to find some way to rally the public. In the beginning, Lincoln's very words will bear that out... he said, 'If I can end this war by freeing the slaves, I would free the slaves. If I can end this war by keeping slavery, I would keep slavery.' Before the war, Lincoln was actively working on a compromise with the Southern states, which would have allowed slavery to legally continue in the United States until 1911! THAT's how much Lincoln "cared" about the issue of slavery!

The proof, as I stated early in spport of your supposition, is that the The North lawfully held slaves themselves right up to and during the Civil War...

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

The proof, as I stated early in spport of your supposition, is that the The North lawfully held slaves themselves right up to and during the Civil War...

It was also widely reported that Northern generals actually used slave labor to help with the 'clean-up' efforts following the war. Now this sounds appalling to some, especially Northerners who have some glorious vision of the North fighting for the rights of black people, but it would actually be more benevolent to the black slaves than what we know for a fact did occur. Upon "liberating" the slaves, the Union army promptly ordered most of them held against their will in what were effectively concentration camps, where thousands of them died of starvation and disease. People today might think, when the war ended, the Union just turned the slaves loose to run free, but that was not the case. It would be months before Congress would pass the 13th Amendment, and in the interim, freed black slaves were a people without Constitutional rights or protections. They were not even legally considered "citizens" of the United States.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

You can dis all you like, it's a free country. I proudly fly the confederate flag in honor of my two great-great uncles who fought and died under that flag, and I am sorry you don't have the decency to allow people to honor their fallen soldiers in battle, in particular, AMERICAN TRAITORS.

Fixed that for you

 

[Mott the Hoople]

do know what a civil war means?

YEs, it's the grandaddy of all oxymorons.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

All this being said, I do and would defend his right to post that flag anywhere he sees fit, to wear it on his body and to carry it in a peaceful manner. Flags are mere pieces of cloth, invented to rally troops in battle. I personally do not care for the confederate flag any more than I care for the Nazi flag, or the Union Jack. All flags that have suffered defeat at the hands of the US. But if you like collecting losing flags, the Battle Flag of Northern Virginia is a nifty one.

Hey free speech is free speech. To me the most dispicable modern symbols of bigotry are the Confederate Flag and the Swastika but if that's what someone believes they have that right.

and before you jump on me about the Battle Flag of Northern Virginia, yes you are correct that it's not the true original Confederate flag but that has what it has come to symbolise.

When I see someone here in Ohio flying that flag I ask them if their from one of the southern states and when they say their not then that just means their a redneck to me.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

The Civil War wasn't really fought on the issue of emancipation of blacks indeed Lincoln, at least initially, was against it. It was more about preventing the South from breaking away from the Union.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4p2967.html

That's a circular argument Tom. I'd then ask you "Why did the Southern States want to break awway from the Union?". Emancipation may not have initially been why the war began but any argument about slavery not being the central issue of the American Civil war is a false argument.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

No it's not. Lincoln didn't emancipate at the outset of the war and the only slaves he declared free were slaves he had no authority over. The war, for the north's part, was all about not letting the country divided. For southerners it was all about chasing the north back north. Secession is all about slavery.

Again, that's circular reasoning. The fundamental central cause of the American Civil war was the issue of slavery. Had our founding fathers been succesful in holding our young nation together while prohibiting slavery from the begining, the Civil War would not have occurred.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

So you're just going to blissfully ignore all the black slave owners? Or the white slaves of the period?

I could be wrong here but by the time of the Civil war I do beleive that indetured servitude of whites had all ready been prohibited in the United States.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Everyone always simplifies the reasons for the war. It was about slavery...economics and slavery! The North had economies that were not as dependent on agriculture as the South was. It was easier for the North to take the higher moral ground, but the truth was they still had slaves during the Civil War on farms as well.

The leaders of southern states knew their economies were at stake and they resented the interference of the federal government and the false morality of many in the North. They had the Constitution on their side with regards to states rights and however morally objectionable you may find that...it is a fact. Remember, the North still had slavery before and during the Civil war. This is important to remember because the North was not abolishing slavery in their own states only restricting its expansion into new states. This communicated itself as extreme hubris to southerners.

Dixie's heritage is no more or less obectionable than those whose relatives fought for the North.

For southerner's the war WAS about states rights.

That's not really true either. For most southernors who actually fought in the war were not of the landowner or political class. They did not own slaves and the principle of States Rights vs Federalism would have been a little to esoteric conidering that most were not well educated.

Shelby Foote tells a remarkable story in his 3 volume works how after the battle of Shiloh a young Private from Mississippi was brought before a Union Colonol, as a POW, to be interviewed. The Colonol asked the young private. "Son, why are you fighting us?" The Private said "Sir, cause ya'lls down here.". The Colonol stood up and saluted the young man. It was a very good answer.

That was the reason most southerners faught in that war.

I have to give that pause for thought. If some asshole politicians in my State succeeded from the Union and the Feds sent soldiers in with guns.....I'd fight to protect my State too.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

And here's the Motthead with his flurry of stupidity. Can you possibly flood the board with MORE posts to make the same ill-informed point? Here's an idea, maybe you never thought of... when you think you've finished responding, just before you hit that "post" button at the bottom, think really hard... see if maybe there is something you may want to add to your stupidity. That way, you can consolidate all your ignorance into one post, instead of 20! Your little sporadic spurts of incompetence get on my nerves, because it appears you are someone who is shooting from the hip, not really thinking about what you've posted, and not really taking the time to be sure that's all you wanted to post. Like a neurotic cat!

Slavery was an issue in the Civil War for several reasons, but not because Southerners were racists and Northerners were Civil Rights advocates! I would say the main reason was, because the US had failed to outlaw the practice in previous years. The SCOTUS upheld the practice and deemed slaves as "personal property" ...this was the law! My guess is, had slavery been outlawed, and had the court ruled that slaves were people, there wouldn't have been many Southerners who owned slaves.

 

[Minister of Truth]

And here's the Motthead with his flurry of stupidity. Can you possibly flood the board with MORE posts to make the same ill-informed point? Here's an idea, maybe you never thought of... when you think you've finished responding, just before you hit that "post" button at the bottom, think really hard... see if maybe there is something you may want to add to your stupidity. That way, you can consolidate all your ignorance into one post, instead of 20! Your little sporadic spurts of incompetence get on my nerves, because it appears you are someone who is shooting from the hip, not really thinking about what you've posted, and not really taking the time to be sure that's all you wanted to post. Like a neurotic cat!

Slavery was an issue in the Civil War for several reasons, but not because Southerners were racists and Northerners were Civil Rights advocates! I would say the main reason was, because the US had failed to outlaw the practice in previous years. The SCOTUS upheld the practice and deemed slaves as "personal property" ...this was the law! My guess is, had slavery been outlawed, and had the court ruled that slaves were people, there wouldn't have been many Southerners who owned slaves.

Slavery was an issue because Southerners were retards and idiots. Some things never change...

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Shelby Foote tells a remarkable story in his 3 volume works how after the battle of Shiloh a young Private from Mississippi was brought before a Union Colonol, as a POW, to be interviewed. The Colonol asked the young private. "Son, why are you fighting us?" The Private said "Sir, cause ya'lls down here.". The Colonol stood up and saluted the young man. It was a very good answer.

Why wasn't he executed? This is outrageous.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

If some asshole politicians in my State succeeded from the Union and the Feds sent soldiers in with guns....

Let the fuckers burn.