A historic disaster is coming for the US from the tax bill

No, actually, that's not why I put people on ignore; and yes, if a mod behaves badly, they aren't exempt from crtiticism.

You're an idiot. If you can't get along with everyone else, it's you.
When you take the time to compose a rebuttal to an ignorant claim, and you get another ignorant 'what about?' each and every time, you have a choice. Wear out a keypad attempting to nurture the limited cognitive ability of the person you are addressing, or just give up and put them on ignore.
 
Hah!!! Really? So why is everything being manufactured overseas...with materials shipped there first...and shipped back? It isn't about saving on taxes. It's cheap labor, no healthcare for employees, and no environmental concerns.

If you don't see that, then you don't understand basic math.

So how is a tax reduction going to make up for all of those savings overseas?

tax cuts coupled with penalties when bringing the product back into the country.
Look, you obviously have not studied Trumps policy and his business plan to MAGA.

A piece of advice would be to not question the man's business savvy. For all of his shortcomings that is not one of them

this Tax Reform is good for the country, top to bottom, the only argument from the opposition centers around the government being better stewards of our money than we are. that's just stupidity.
 
tax cuts coupled with penalties when bringing the product back into the country.
Look, you obviously have not studied Trumps policy and his business plan to MAGA.

A piece of advice would be to not question the man's business savvy. For all of his shortcomings that is not one of them

this Tax Reform is good for the country, top to bottom, the only argument from the opposition centers around the government being better stewards of our money than we are. that's just stupidity.
If you think trump's a successful businessman, then you'll have to define what you consider 'successful'. He's a gross failure, who owed the banks so much money, they HAD to allow him to default on almost one billion in PERSONAL debt.

Can you link us to the import penalties the Republicans put into their tax bills?
 
If you think trump's a successful businessman, then you'll have to define what you consider 'successful'. He's a gross failure, who owed the banks so much money, they HAD to allow him to default on almost one billion in PERSONAL debt.

So Trump is not a successful businessman? have you visited Trump tower, or Mar largo? or seen that plane and helicopter he flies around in with his friggin name embossed on the side?
Part of being successful in this country especially is venturing, risk management and yes sometimes cutting your losses and moving on.
Your stupidity is really starting to bug me, and mainly because you try and be elegant about it. It's like watching a clown going to the beauty parlor but still coming out with orange frizzy hair.

Can you link us to the import penalties the Republicans put into their tax bills?

ok, you just stay stupid, your call.
He is working on finalizing the legislation, but first things first he needs to see the final number from congress on our domestic corporate tax rate, one would do theses things in that order , no?
look, I realize most of this is above your IQ.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38202721
 
So Trump is not a successful businessman? have you visited Trump tower, or Mar largo? or seen that plane and helicopter he flies around in with his friggin name embossed on the side?
Part of being successful in this country especially is venturing, risk management and yes sometimes cutting your losses and moving on.
Your stupidity is really starting to bug me, and mainly because you try and be elegant about it. It's like watching a clown going to the beauty parlor but still coming out with orange frizzy hair.



ok, you just stay stupid, your call.
He is working on finalizing the legislation, but first things first he needs to see the final number from congress on our domestic corporate tax rate, one would do theses things in that order , no?
look, I realize most of this is above your IQ.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38202721
I'm not sure why I don't add you to the other learning disabled members who I have on ignore? I guess I have a soft spot for those who struggle.

You offer a year old link to trump's lies, as proof that he's going to impose a penalty ON HIMSELF AND HIS DAUGHTER? You truly are an idiot.

trump isn't 'working on finalizing' anything fool. Republicans are going to send him whatever they want to, and he's going to sign it. WHERE IS THE LANGUAGE IN THE TAX BILLS THAT THEY ARE FINALIZING, THAT MENTIONS THE PENALTIES YOU MENTIONED? Do you really think he's going to penalize himself? I asked twice, because I know you're going to ignore it.

Do you remember when trump had a fancy yacht? What ever happened to that? trump is leveraged out his butthole, and no American banks will loan him money. You believe that's 'successful'?
 
There are some big events in our country's history.

FDR did a lot of things right - he eliminated elder poverty (before Social Security, 90% of elders were in poverty); he regulated Wall Street, ending the constant pattern of bank crashes (for the first time, bank crashes ended for 50 years, until Reagan d-regulated the industry and we had the S&L crash). He raised taxes enough to pay our bills, and inequality plummeted.

Reagan gave the country a hatred for its own government, its first huge peacetime deficits, de-regulation of Wall Street, and the flattening of wages while the rich skyrocketed in wealth for decades, restoring great inequality.

That inequality - which has largely destroyed the functioning of democracy and threatens democracy - is our country's biggest problem and needs to be reversed. This tax bill does exactly the opposite, worsening the inequality, another wealth transfer of trillions to the top and gutting of the spending that benefits the American people.

Things are on the wrong direction without this bill. They're on a far worse direction with this bill.

This is a historic moment the way the sinking of the Titanic was a historic moment for ships. The utter corruption that has taken over the Republican Party is about to greatly harm the American people for years or decades to come.

This is the worst bill in decades, and that's saying a lot. Right-wingers, don't bother drooling idiocy in this thread with your ignorant or dishonest denials.

Does the Senate tax bill really offer a tax break for private jets, as key Democrats claim?

“#GOPTaxScam philosophy: Let’s end tax benefits for colleges and students and give a tax break to private jet owners.”
— Democratic National Committee Chairman Tom Perez,*on Twitter, Nov. 17

“A private jet tax break paid for by slashing health care. You can’t make this stuff up.”
— Sen. Jeff Merkley (D-Ore.),*on Twitter, Nov. 16
*
“Retweet if you would *not* benefit from a private jet tax
— Sen. Kamala D. Harris (D-Calif.), on Twitter, Nov. 17

The*Republican*tax bill, which passed in the Senate during the wee hours of the morning on Dec. 2, contains a provision addressing the way private jets are taxed. Many on the left, who have criticized the GOP tax plan as a benefit to corporations and the super-rich and a burden for the middle class, have seized on this portion of the bill, characterizing it as a tax write-off for private jets.

One of the most widely shared claims came from Sen. Kamala D. Harris, who tweeted, “Retweet if you would *not* benefit from a private jet tax break,” on Nov. 17, linking to a Business Insider article with the headline, “The Republican tax bill has a provision that would end a headache for private jet owners.” Harris’s tweet prompted nearly 69,000 retweets and more than 35,000 likes.

The characterization fits Democrats’ narrative that the tax bill caters to the super-rich, but is it accurate? Let’s have a look.

Harris’s claim that the Senate bill contains a provision for a tax break on private jets comes from the Business Insider article she linked to in her tweet. The article explains how the Senate version of the GOP tax bill makes tax changes to specific industries, noting that the “the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act would correct a long-running dispute between owners and operators of private jets and the IRS.”

Here is a breakdown of that long-running dispute.

If you’ve ever purchased a plane ticket, you’ve probably noticed that a portion of the ticket price pays for “taxes and fees.” One of those taxes is the federal excise tax, which is generally triggered when a person or entity provides an aircraft with crew and sells tickets to passengers. Currently, the excise tax is set at 7.5 percent, and it mostly applies to commercial airlines.

Private jets, which are owned by individuals or groups of individuals, have operated under a gray area with respect to the tax. When a person flies on his or her own private jet, the excise tax doesn’t apply. But many owners of private jets lend their aircraft to management companies that use them to charter flights for others. Someone participating in a private jet program such as NetJets pays a fee — say, $550,000 — for a share of a jet, which entitles them to a certain number of hours of flying time.

In 1958, the Internal Revenue Service’s Revenue Rule 58-215*exempted corporate-owned planes that are lent to airline companies from the excise tax.* But the rule didn’t provide total clarity for a new kind of private plane ownership in which individuals own a share of a private jet and lend it to management companies for chartered flights. In a 1998 lawsuit between the IRS and fractional sharing company Executive Jet Aviation, the U.S. Court of Appeals ruled that the excise tax could be charged on the company’s occupied hourly fee.

The obscure tax law made headlines in 2011, when NetJets filed a lawsuit against the IRS, alleging that the company was improperly assessed the excise tax on its maintenance fees. And in 2012, the excise tax was back in the news when*the IRS chief council expanded the scope of the excise tax on private jet management companies and decided that they should also be charged a tax on their service fees. The decision, which applied retroactively, meant private jet management companies were subject to paying back taxes and penalties.

In 2013, after several management companies successfully appealed their audits, the decision was put on hold. In 2015, NetJets won its lawsuit*when the court ruled the IRS could not retroactively impose the excise tax. In the end, in July 2017, the IRS decided to close the remaining audits.

But even though the IRS closed the audits, the companies could still be subject to taxes if the IRS decided to change course in the future. In 2015, amid the uncertainty, Rep. Patrick J. Tiberi (R-Ohio)*introduced a bill in the House, exempting the companies from the tax. And in 2016, the measure was amended by House Ways and Means Committee and placed on the Union Calendar, which schedules money-related bills.

In February, Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio)*introduced a companion measure in the Senate, which Sen. Rob Portman (R-Ohio) co-sponsored, but the bill did not advance. The Ohio*lawmakers took interest in the taxes because*Netjets is based in Columbus (Update: an earlier version of this column incorrectly said Cleveland). During the debate over the GOP tax bill, Portman introduced an amendment*with the same effect. Ultimately, Senate Finance Committee Chairman Orrin G. Hatch (R-Utah) added the provision directly to the tax bill.

The Joint Committee on Taxation estimated the change was “estimated to reduce Federal fiscal year budget receipts by less than $500,000 for the period 2017-2026.” In other words, less than $50,000 a year, which is literally a rounding error in the federal budget. In contrast, the GOP tax bill is estimated to*reduce revenue by as much as*$1.5 trillion over 10 years.

When the Senate voted to pass the GOP bill, with the provision included, it settled the debate over whether the companies should be charged an excise tax on management fees. In short, the provision provides regulatory clarity to the IRS.

So how did these Democrats come to regard the bill as a tax break for private jets? Well, some media outlets jumped on the provision, calling it a tax break in their reporting. The Business Insider article Harris cites, however, doesn’t use the word tax break in its text, although it does refer to the provision as a “tax change.”

Still, other outlets, like the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, and CNN offered a more nuanced take on provision. Nevertheless, the claim went viral on social media.

Lily Adams, spokesperson for Harris, defended the tweet in an emailed statement.

“After reading about this provision in The Washington Post, New York Times, CNN, and in a report from the Joint Committee on Taxation, we asked our followers whether they would benefit from this incredibly narrow protection to benefit a very limited set of companies. Nearly all of our followers, along with nearly all of Americans, will not benefit,” she wrote. “That is a fact.”

Update: Ray Zaccaro, a spokesperson for Merkley, responded to our request for comment at 11:17 p.m. on Dec. 6, saying he would send a statement in the morning. A previous version of this column said he did not respond. We’ve updated this post to include his response.

“As the Post analysis clarifies, the Republican tax bill eliminates a tax that the federal government tried to collect from private jet owners but which those jet owners fought in court,” wrote Zaccaro in an emailed statement. “While the Post may not see this as a tax break, to everyone else, this seems like another giveaway to the wealthy and powerful.”

Perez did not respond to requests for comment.

Several Democratic leaders claimed the GOP bill provided a tax break for private jets, adding to their case that the bill was heavily weighted to corporations and the super-rich.

While the cause is well-intended, the characterization of the excise tax clause as a tax break is misguided. The provision provides regulatory clarity on a tax that has never successfully been imposed on private jet management companies. In short, the companies can’t receive a break on taxes that were never collected.

Harris*defends her tweet, arguing that they are simply describing the provision as it was reported in the media as a tax break. But that was not the case with the article she retweeted — which also noted that the tax provision was valued at less than $50,000 a year.*Moreover, several outlets offered a detailed take on the provision, making clear it the clause aimed to settle a decades-long dispute between the IRS and private jet management companies.

Still, these tweets are not alike. Harris earns Three Pinocchios*for referring to a “private jet tax break” and suggesting wealthy owners would gain.

But Merkely and Perez each earn Four Pinocchios for falsely suggesting that education and health care were slashed to pay for this $50,000-a-year “tax break.”
 
Maybe you're right about the private jets - which already get a lot of tax advantages. So let's get back to $6 trillion redistributed from the American people to the rich and corporations.
 
Maybe you're right about the private jets - which already get a lot of tax advantages. So let's get back to $6 trillion redistributed from the American people to the rich and corporations.

Who are the American people you are speaking of if the rich are not a part of them?
 
Who are the American people you are speaking of if the rich are not a part of them?

Obviously I'm referring to the vast majority of the American people with the phrase. In a criminal trial it's called 'the people v. cawacko', that doesn't mean cawacko isn't one of the people.
 
Obviously I'm referring to the vast majority of the American people with the phrase. In a criminal trial it's called 'the people v. cawacko', that doesn't mean cawacko isn't one of the people.

Fair enough, I get that part but the dollar amounts you reference aren't coming from the people. I'm not rich but money isn't being taken from me by rich people
 
Fair enough, I get that part but the dollar amounts you reference aren't coming from the people. I'm not rich but money isn't being taken from me by rich people

Seriously, it is. Huge amounts. Understanding that is pretty important - you can't be expected to know the right policies if you don't understand that. It's a big topic.

A lot of it isn't visible to you.

For example, if wages are kept down, people never see the money and don't miss it. But the money is taken from them.

Economic literacy requires learning more about how the system works and how the rich manipulate society's wealth. I've linked chart after chart after chart that make a lot clear, no right-winger ever shows any understanding of the facts.

My comment above is that the tax bill is redistributing $6 trillion from the people to the rich and corporations. $4.5 trillion is spending cuts on the people and tax increases on the people; $1.5 trillion is added to the debt.
 
Seriously, it is. Huge amounts. Understanding that is pretty important - you can't be expected to know the right policies if you don't understand that. It's a big topic.

A lot of it isn't visible to you.

For example, if wages are kept down, people never see the money and don't miss it. But the money is taken from them.

Economic literacy requires learning more about how the system works and how the rich manipulate society's wealth. I've linked chart after chart after chart that make a lot clear, no right-winger ever shows any understanding of the facts.

My comment above is that the tax bill is redistributing $6 trillion from the people to the rich and corporations. $4.5 trillion is spending cuts on the people and tax increases on the people; $1.5 trillion is added to the debt.

You have a problem with taxes but you don't have a problem with the Fed driven asset bubble we are in which has driven billions/trillions in wealth to the richest in our country.

You said you live in California. One just has to look here to see the income inequality we have created with our policies. We have some of the most valuable companies in the world and amazing wealth and we have the highest poverty rate.

We push policies that restrict home building which pushes cost of living prices to the highest in the country which benefits those who already own but punishes all others.

And we have high taxes in our state so it is clearly far more than the tax code driving this
 
You have a problem with taxes but you don't have a problem with the Fed driven asset bubble we are in which has driven billions/trillions in wealth to the richest in our country.

You said you live in California. One just has to look here to see the income inequality we have created with our policies. We have some of the most valuable companies in the world and amazing wealth and we have the highest poverty rate.

We push policies that restrict home building which pushes cost of living prices to the highest in the country which benefits those who already own but punishes all others.

And we have high taxes in our state so it is clearly far more than the tax code driving this

Our state isn't especially high in poverty except when you take into account the higher wealth compared to other states. And we do have the most undocumented people, etc. We have a lot of good policies - 30% of Californians for example have free medical care. Compare that to the rest states.
 
Our state isn't especially high in poverty except when you take into account the higher wealth compared to other states. And we do have the most undocumented people, etc. We have a lot of good policies - 30% of Californians for example have free medical care. Compare that to the rest states.

One out of five Californian's live in poverty. That's the highest in the nation. (And the SPM is a progressive creation to better judge poverty rates). PPI claims another 20% are near poverty. How's that not so high?


http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/08/...ornia-have-the-nations-highest-poverty-level/
 
One out of five Californian's live in poverty. That's the highest in the nation. (And the SPM is a progressive creation to better judge poverty rates). PPI claims another 20% are near poverty. How's that not so high?

Well, you pretty much ignored what I said. I pointed out it's the highest only when you consider the higher wealth in the state - without that, CA is in the middle in poverty, and I mentioned things like the great healthcare provided unlike red states.
 
Well, you pretty much ignored what I said. I pointed out it's the highest only when you consider the higher wealth in the state - without that, CA is in the middle in poverty, and I mentioned things like the great healthcare provided unlike red states.

Being a high wealth state doesn't change the fact people are in still poverty. On an equivalent basis your purchasing power is the same here as it is Texas or Delaware in the SPM. And in the real world you can't ignore cost of living. Which is where our policies that cause the high cost of living and homes come in to play.

As far as healthcare for the poor I don't have a sense of what percentage of poor in other states get healthcare compared to ours.
 
Being a high wealth state doesn't change the fact people are in still poverty. On an equivalent basis your purchasing power is the same here as it is Texas or Delaware in the SPM. And in the real world you can't ignore cost of living. Which is where our policies that cause the high cost of living and homes come in to play.

As far as healthcare for the poor I don't have a sense of what percentage of poor in other states get healthcare compared to ours.

Actually, it does change it. I don't have the number for red states, but it's under 20% - presumably well under since most red states refused Medicaid expansion. In the meantime you can read about what the red states go through:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/01/living-poor-and-uninsured-in-a-red-state/282881/
 
Actually, it does change it. I don't have the number for red states, but it's under 20% - presumably well under since most red states refused Medicaid expansion. In the meantime you can read about what the red states go through:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/01/living-poor-and-uninsured-in-a-red-state/282881/

My understanding of the SPM is that insurance costs are already included in the calculation. Therefore even with the benefits California offers we still have the highest poverty rate in the country. Is that wrong?
 
There are some big events in our country's history.

FDR did a lot of things right - he eliminated elder poverty (before Social Security, 90% of elders were in poverty); he regulated Wall Street, ending the constant pattern of bank crashes (for the first time, bank crashes ended for 50 years, until Reagan d-regulated the industry and we had the S&L crash). He raised taxes enough to pay our bills, and inequality plummeted.

Reagan gave the country a hatred for its own government, its first huge peacetime deficits, de-regulation of Wall Street, and the flattening of wages while the rich skyrocketed in wealth for decades, restoring great inequality.

That inequality - which has largely destroyed the functioning of democracy and threatens democracy - is our country's biggest problem and needs to be reversed. This tax bill does exactly the opposite, worsening the inequality, another wealth transfer of trillions to the top and gutting of the spending that benefits the American people.

Things are on the wrong direction without this bill. They're on a far worse direction with this bill.

This is a historic moment the way the sinking of the Titanic was a historic moment for ships. The utter corruption that has taken over the Republican Party is about to greatly harm the American people for years or decades to come.

This is the worst bill in decades, and that's saying a lot. Right-wingers, don't bother drooling idiocy in this thread with your ignorant or dishonest denials.

Another painfully stupid claim and prediction from leftist dumbfucks.

Nothing can be more asinine than the Lying liberal argument that allowing Americans to keep more of what is theirs is a bad thing. Liberals really are dumber than a rock.
 
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