A standard day at JPP

Nationalism reached it's epoch in the 30's with Hitler and Mussoloni. It replaced theocracy and was no better. It's been on a downward spiral ever since and will hopefully die a painful death.
 
Watermark said:
I took them all back off of ignore again, because it was getting annoying just going in and clicking "view post" all of the time. Ignoring people is not only cowardly, it's practically useless.

I'm just really going to try not to comment politically on anything with them anymore, because it always gets really big, and I'm bipolar, so if I go into one of the "low" times while we're in an argument I tend to overreact.

I dunno... it's just that Black is so goddamn SERIOUS about EVERYTHING.
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:D

Okay, THAT I can understand.

I don't think he is, really, it's just the lexicon of his political and philosophical orientation. I know it well because it's the one I grew up with, more or less.
 
He's a collectivist. Even as I have drifted more to liberalism I have always held individualism as one of the key tenets of my philosophy. I also really just think our cultures kind of collide - this is also true with Cypress.

I really shouldn't comment much more on BAC. He's about to run in here and say to me "Now listen here, motherfucker!"
 
OrnotBitwise said:
Exactly. Presumption of commonality of interest.

Which is highly presumptuous. Stupid, even. Reflexive and unthinking.
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That's just your baseless assertion.
What if I conclude, based on evidence accumulated from experience, that I have more in common with a software designer in Amsterdam than I do with you? In fact, I have concluded exactly this. So have many people . . . and I applaud it.
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It's fine to have overseas alliances if they are truly beneficial to the both of you. What's happening now is that our elites are PURPORTING to have a commonality of interest with all citizens and claim to be working in that direction, but in fact, they're selling out vast swaths of american people with bad trade policy.

Fine, you don't value your alliance with americans, though this nation has undoubtedly benefitted you in the past. That just makes you an asshole, not enlightened. And you definitely are NOT exhibiting a love of all of humanity when you put americans on the back burner.
If we are to base our loyalties and, hence, our actions on commonality of interest then it behooves us, as rational beings at least marginally freed from the strictures of instinct, to determine exactly where those commonalities of interest really lie.
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I agree. THE NWO sellout deals are NOT good for americans, hence we should consider our elites hostile to our group.
Which is precisely where nationalism falls apart. And should, because it is atavistic and contra-survival.
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IS the guy from amsterdam gonna be there for you when something goes wrong, to stop you from being mugged, rush you to the hospital, fight to defend your home, assist you at the polls with pro-you votes? I think not.
This, in turn, is why I have no love for the United States government.
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How about the American people who are also victims of our government?
I do have some considerable love for our system of government. That is worth preserving, at least to the extent of merging its best features into whatever will come after. But the nation itself is of no particular interest to me.
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What do you think will happen to our system in the global society you envision. The plan is to subvert our system with treaties which will effectively nullify our system of government.
The day of nations is, for better or worse, drawing toward late afternoon. Get ready for a new day, Bubba.
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No. It's not, this is just wishful thinking on the part of global elites who want to sell everyone else down the toilet. It won't happen. You can count on that.
 
Watermark said:
He's a collectivist. Even as I have drifted more to liberalism I have always held individualism as one of the key tenets of my philosophy. I also really just think our cultures kind of collide - this is also true with Cypress.

I really shouldn't comment much more on BAC. He's about to run in here and say to me "Now listen here, motherfucker!"
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Ah, you still don't understand what collectivism really is. This is okay: I have high hopes for you, my friend.

Collectivism isn't diametrically opposed to individualism, it is diametrically opposed to atomism. There is plenty of room for individualism within any well-constructed system based on a collectivist worldview. In fact, many collectivist traditions laud and elevate individualism above almost anything else.

The rub arises from what we mean by "individualism" naturally enough.
 
OrnotBitwise said:
Ah, you still don't understand what collectivism really is. This is okay: I have high hopes for you, my friend.

Collectivism isn't diametrically opposed to individualism, it is diametrically opposed to atomism. There is plenty of room for individualism within any well-constructed system based on a collectivist worldview. In fact, many collectivist traditions laud and elevate individualism above almost anything else.

The rub arises from what we mean by "individualism" naturally enough.
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Of course, your anti-atomism fixation is just your thinly veiled contempt for individuals. You believe societies should be constructed with disregard for the actual needs of individuals.



And additionally, the realignment of loyalties you describe is precisely that, a realignment, not an EXPANSION of loyalties to include more people, but a SWITCHING of loyalties, aka, a betrayal. You should no longer be allowed to vote given this belief of yours, as your right to vote, premised upon the opinion that you will do what is good for the country, becomes a tool of treachery, admittedly.
 
Watermark said:
Nationalism reached it's epoch in the 30's with Hitler and Mussoloni. It replaced theocracy and was no better. It's been on a downward spiral ever since and will hopefully die a painful death.
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Doesn't look like it. Russia, CHina, Iran, North korea, venezuala etc...... are all becoming more nationalistic and powerseeking. The illusion that "nationalism is going away" is implanted into the minds of WESTERN individuals, so they will be helpless and confused as their leaders sell them into submission to foreign powers. Please wake the hell up, you ignorant fool.
 
uscitizen said:
Umm Regan and bush proved that nationalism is alive and well in the good ol US of A.
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But they're fighting for global corporations and their personal friends. They're policies actually sellout most americans. They're abusing the government of the nation to satisfy their personal needs to the long term detriment of the nation. They're actually globalist sellout traitors to the nation, border destruction and all.
 
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Watermark said:
I took them all back off of ignore again, because it was getting annoying just going in and clicking "view post" all of the time. Ignoring people is not only cowardly, it's practically useless.

I'm just really going to try not to comment politically on anything with them anymore, because it always gets really big, and I'm bipolar, so if I go into one of the "low" times while we're in an argument I tend to overreact.

I dunno... it's just that Black is so goddamn SERIOUS about EVERYTHING.
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I fully agree with your first paragraph. it is cowardly, and thus I have never done it, nor will I. I prefer to know my enemies, and tho this is simply an internet forum, some of the jerks on this board would definitely be my enemies in real life. I would have nothing to do with them.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Of course, your anti-atomism fixation is just your thinly veiled contempt for individuals. You believe societies should be constructed with disregard for the actual needs of individuals.



And additionally, the realignment of loyalties you describe is precisely that, a realignment, not an EXPANSION of loyalties to include more people, but a SWITCHING of loyalties, aka, a betrayal. You should no longer be allowed to vote given this belief of yours, as your right to vote, premised upon the opinion that you will do what is good for the country, becomes a tool of treachery, admittedly.
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And thus the cockroach would argue against the concept of cleanliness. :rolleyes:

Look, Bambi, the realignment of loyalties I'm talking about would indeed be an expansion of loyalties. Yours are stupidly and emotionally circumscribed by geography. Mine are rationally described by mutual interest and are, thus, global. There are far more middle class engineers and people in related industries than there are adults in the United States. My gang's a hell of a lot bigger than your gang. Neener, neener, neener.

More to the point, whether you wish to grow up or not, the exploitive class -- the corporatists in control of the majority of the world's wealth -- have long ago abandoned national loyalties in favor of mutual self-interest. We're lagging behind, largely because slow and stupid dimwits like you cling to this nationalist fairy tale, that our Sovereign Country will come to our rescue.

You people are too pathetic to even bother kicking into the gutter.
 
doniston said:
I fully agree with your first paragraph. it is cowardly, and thus I have never done it, nor will I. I prefer to know my enemies, and tho this is simply an internet forum, some of the jerks on this board would definitely be my enemies in real life. I would have nothing to do with them.
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I never really call people "enemies"... just seems rather melodramatic.
 
AssHatZombie said:
But they're fighting for global corporations and their personal friends. They're policies actually sellout most americans. They're abusing the government of the nation to satisfy their personal needs to the long term detriment of the nation. They're actually globalist sellout traitors to the nation, border destruction and all.
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Darned libburls running down the American way of capitalism, You darned commie ;)
 
OrnotBitwise said:
And thus the cockroach would argue against the concept of cleanliness. :rolleyes:

Look, Bambi, the realignment of loyalties I'm talking about would indeed be an expansion of loyalties.
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No. it's not. It's an abandonment of old and replacement with new ones.
Yours are stupidly and emotionally circumscribed by geography.
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No they're not. It's just that what is being offered as a NEW EXPANDED ALLIANCE is an abandonment of the old ones historically created by geography, yet still valid alliances, as all functioning alliances are valid, despite their origin.
Mine are rationally described by mutual interest and are, thus, global.
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But you abandon the old ones you had. YOu call them irrational, and backward. It's not an expansion, but a substitution.
There are far more middle class engineers and people in related industries than there are adults in the United States. My gang's a hell of a lot bigger than your gang. Neener, neener, neener.
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Your thinking is malicious and childish.
More to the point, whether you wish to grow up or not, the exploitive class -- the corporatists in control of the majority of the world's wealth -- have long ago abandoned national loyalties in favor of mutual self-interest.
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Accepting treachery from our leadership is not "growing up"
They are cynical and immoral, not wise.
We're lagging behind, largely because slow and stupid dimwits like you cling to this nationalist fairy tale, that our Sovereign Country will come to our rescue.

You people are too pathetic to even bother kicking into the gutter.
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You will lose. Your are full of lies, and you obviously are referring to a replacement of loyalties, NOT an expansion as you like to portray. You're a lying fraud who can't keep his story straight.
 
uscitizen said:
Darned libburls running down the American way of capitalism, You darned commie ;)
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Ok. usc, You were wronged when neocons were calling you a commie. Now you will you kindly get the fuck over it and stop being a jackass. Thanks for your cooperation in this matter.
 
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