APP - Above Plain Politics

[PoliTalker]

Hello montgomery,

I wish it was possible to have your PIP theory working on a forum, but I'm afraid it's not possible. Moderators are human and tend to ban those who don't match their political persuasion. I've been banned from many, as has Iolo, who I know quite well. She's been banned from nearly all of the ones I've been banned from.

We tend to blame ourselves for being banned from forums but after much experience I've come to realize that it's impossible t last for long on any of them. It's moderator bias that is the problem. Here we have an opportunity to make it different for a while at least. If it catches on and the right can't maintain an upper hand, they will be rescued with some lame excuse. Fun eh!

I find it difficult to believe that posters who engage in strictly civil discourse and obey the given rules get banned. The whole idea of a chat room is to have good debates and activity. If good opposing views are prevented, what is there to debate on? You can't counter what the other side says if you don't let them say it. The problems only arise when people quit arguing their point and begin to make personal attacks. That's where good discussions begin to go downhill, at that precise point. Just stay away from that and there is no concern for getting banned. Don't go personal.

People have a hard time doing that, so they're afraid to risk being banned. Really, what the penalty should be for violating APP decorum would be to simply get tossed out of APP.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

testing to see if I've been approved

 

[Ross Dolan]

Hello Frank,



Good one, Frank. Time will tell. We won't know unless we try.

Funny thing is: Even with a large Ignore List, I am left with such a great volume of subjects / posters to engage with that I can't possibly keep up with it all. I've found that many people are quite adept at turning the flame throwers on and off at will. I suspect there are a goodly number who wouldn't mind a diversion from the all too predictable food fights. We did have a Clean Debate Week earlier this year.

Maybe this is how a more popular APP gets started. By having conversations here.

I'd love to see more of what you are looking for HERE...

...out in the non-cyber world.

HERE...I am looking for the rough and tumble.

Good luck with APP. My guess is the efforts will go nowhere. Most of the people HERE are HERE for the rough and tumble. The last thing in the world most want to do...is to be courteous and kind.

 

[iolo]

testing to see if I've been approved

The thought of your goodself and I being civil to one another, Jeremiah, is an interesting one indeed!

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Frank,

I'd love to see more of what you are looking for HERE...

...out in the non-cyber world.

HERE...I am looking for the rough and tumble.

Good luck with APP. My guess is the efforts will go nowhere. Most of the people HERE are HERE for the rough and tumble. The last thing in the world most want to do...is to be courteous and kind.

Not strictly true. Everyone who talks to me is courteous and kind. 'Rough and tumble' may be popular, but people don't want to completely let go of 'courteous and kind.' They are happy to be able to let their guard down as long as they know they won't be attacked for it; and I provide that.

Now part of the notion that most are her for 'rough and tumble' has to be the result of newbies being run off because they can't take it. This place attracts plenty of people who do not come here for 'rough and tumble.' They come here to discuss just plain politics. They run into 'rough and tumble' and realize the name of this place is not representative of what's going on. They came to discuss politics and found that the discussions come laced with vulgar insults. They don't like that. Then they are faced with a choice. Do they accept that and continue or do they give up on what they were seeking and leave. Well, the member list shows the results of those decisions. Entry after entry of newbies who left after just a few posts.

Here is a random page out of the member list. The number following the join date is the number of posts made by that poster:

User Name Reverse Sort Order Find Posts Join Date Posts Avatar

magellan
n00b Find latest posts by magellan 06-01-2018 1
magnumgutters
n00b 03-22-2017 0
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
Alliance of builders Find latest posts by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad 08-22-2010 15 Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's Avatar
MaikR87953
n00b 12-24-2015 0
mailz
n00b Find latest posts by mailz 11-20-2015 0
mak2
Verified User Find latest posts by mak2 07-09-2017 2,215 mak2's Avatar
makeamericagayagain
Verified User Find latest posts by makeamericagayagain 08-26-2016 37
maknak
n00b Find latest posts by maknak 01-21-2016 5
Malec
n00b Find latest posts by Malec 01-08-2018 1
Manatee
Verified User Find latest posts by Manatee 12-30-2013 68
ManU1959
Left Coast Find latest posts by ManU1959 10-26-2006 111 ManU1959's Avatar
Maple 5
Verified User Find latest posts by Maple 5 08-06-2008 9
marcoreview
n00b 03-24-2017 0
Margot
Verified User Find latest posts by Margot 10-19-2017 23 Margot's Avatar
Margot Frank
Verified User Find latest posts by Margot Frank 10-02-2017 10,396 Margot Frank's Avatar
mariadonahue19@
n00b 01-22-2018 0
mariecluby
n00b Find latest posts by mariecluby 05-15-2018 10
MariettaIfr
n00b 09-06-2018 0
MarilynSzabo
n00b 03-22-2017 0
Markafeller
n00b Find latest posts by Markafeller 05-13-2013 1
MarkAnderson
n00b 03-22-2017 0
markdouglas497
n00b Find latest posts by markdouglas497 10-02-2016 5
MarkDuffy
n00b 07-01-2017 0
Marquezine
n00b Find latest posts by Marquezine 11-17-2018 5
Marty
n00b Find latest posts by Marty 06-27-2013 1
MaryAnne
n00b Find latest posts by MaryAnne 02-07-2016 2
MarylynCobb
n00b Find latest posts by MarylynCobb 07-11-2018 6
Master Fang
Hard and Fast Find latest posts by Master Fang 10-13-2017 25 Master Fang's Avatar
MasterChief
Junior Member Find latest posts by MasterChief 07-23-2006 44 MasterChief's Avatar
MateoMtnClimber
n00b Find latest posts by MateoMtnClimber 06-29-2018 7

This part of the list shows 30 members. The list shows that 21 out of 30 posters made 10 posts or fewer. And then they left.

The people who stay here may be into 'rough and tumble,' but the people who COME here appear to want something else. Maybe if APP was easier to access, and showed more activity, we would get more people who come and stay.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Hello Frank,



Not strictly true. Everyone who talks to me is courteous and kind. 'Rough and tumble' may be popular, but people don't want to completely let go of 'courteous and kind.' They are happy to be able to let their guard down as long as they know they won't be attacked for it; and I provide that.

Now part of the notion that most are her for 'rough and tumble' has to be the result of newbies being run off because they can't take it. This place attracts plenty of people who do not come here for 'rough and tumble.' They come here to discuss just plain politics. They run into 'rough and tumble' and realize the name of this place is not representative of what's going on. They came to discuss politics and found that the discussions come laced with vulgar insults. They don't like that. Then they are faced with a choice. Do they accept that and continue or do they give up on what they were seeking and leave. Well, the member list shows the results of those decisions. Entry after entry of newbies who left after just a few posts.

Here is a random page out of the member list. The number following the join date is the number of posts made by that poster:

User Name Reverse Sort Order Find Posts Join Date Posts Avatar

magellan
n00b Find latest posts by magellan 06-01-2018 1
magnumgutters
n00b 03-22-2017 0
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
Alliance of builders Find latest posts by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad 08-22-2010 15 Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's Avatar
MaikR87953
n00b 12-24-2015 0
mailz
n00b Find latest posts by mailz 11-20-2015 0
mak2
Verified User Find latest posts by mak2 07-09-2017 2,215 mak2's Avatar
makeamericagayagain
Verified User Find latest posts by makeamericagayagain 08-26-2016 37
maknak
n00b Find latest posts by maknak 01-21-2016 5
Malec
n00b Find latest posts by Malec 01-08-2018 1
Manatee
Verified User Find latest posts by Manatee 12-30-2013 68
ManU1959
Left Coast Find latest posts by ManU1959 10-26-2006 111 ManU1959's Avatar
Maple 5
Verified User Find latest posts by Maple 5 08-06-2008 9
marcoreview
n00b 03-24-2017 0
Margot
Verified User Find latest posts by Margot 10-19-2017 23 Margot's Avatar
Margot Frank
Verified User Find latest posts by Margot Frank 10-02-2017 10,396 Margot Frank's Avatar
mariadonahue19@
n00b 01-22-2018 0
mariecluby
n00b Find latest posts by mariecluby 05-15-2018 10
MariettaIfr
n00b 09-06-2018 0
MarilynSzabo
n00b 03-22-2017 0
Markafeller
n00b Find latest posts by Markafeller 05-13-2013 1
MarkAnderson
n00b 03-22-2017 0
markdouglas497
n00b Find latest posts by markdouglas497 10-02-2016 5
MarkDuffy
n00b 07-01-2017 0
Marquezine
n00b Find latest posts by Marquezine 11-17-2018 5
Marty
n00b Find latest posts by Marty 06-27-2013 1
MaryAnne
n00b Find latest posts by MaryAnne 02-07-2016 2
MarylynCobb
n00b Find latest posts by MarylynCobb 07-11-2018 6
Master Fang
Hard and Fast Find latest posts by Master Fang 10-13-2017 25 Master Fang's Avatar
MasterChief
Junior Member Find latest posts by MasterChief 07-23-2006 44 MasterChief's Avatar
MateoMtnClimber
n00b Find latest posts by MateoMtnClimber 06-29-2018 7

This part of the list shows 30 members. The list shows that 21 out of 30 posters made 10 posts or fewer. And then they left.

The people who stay here may be into 'rough and tumble,' but the people who COME here appear to want something else. Maybe if APP was easier to access, and showed more activity, we would get more people who come and stay.

Anybody who wants what you say you want...

...and who chooses to post here...

...is the kind of person who claims to want peace and quiet...and tries to find it at a raucous rock concert.

THERE ARE NO OTHER FORUMS WHERE ONE CAN DO WHAT ONE CAN DO HERE...

...but you want to change that to where this one must conform to what the others are like.

It makes no sense.

In any case, good luck.

I am hoping the owner of the site and the people with influence here...allow the place to remain exactly like it is.

To that end, I commit to contributing (a very modest amount, since I live at the poverty level) at least twice a year.

If you want to campaign for anything...campaigning for some bucks to help defray costs makes a lot more sense than campaigning to change this to just another Internet forum.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Frank,

Anybody who wants what you say you want...

...and who chooses to post here...

...is the kind of person who claims to want peace and quiet...and tries to find it at a raucous rock concert.

THERE ARE NO OTHER FORUMS WHERE ONE CAN DO WHAT ONE CAN DO HERE...

...but you want to change that to where this one must conform to what the others are like.

Not true at all. I want to a forum where people CHOOSE to be civil.

It makes no sense.

Of course it doesn't to you. Your impression of what this place should be and mine are different. But both of us have some influence over what this place is.

In any case, good luck.

Thank you!

I am hoping the owner of the site and the people with influence here...allow the place to remain exactly like it is.

We are all the people who have influence here.

To that end, I commit to contributing (a very modest amount, since I live at the poverty level) at least twice a year.

If you want to campaign for anything...campaigning for some bucks to help defray costs makes a lot more sense than campaigning to change this to just another Internet forum.

That's what it already is. I can envision improvements and a transcendence. And I am not afraid to put that idea out there and do my part to realize that. Ultimately it has to be up to the participants. I don't appreciate it when new people show up expecting what I envision, and then they are rudely accosted and run off by those who are drawn to the flames. As if some kind of group insecurity prevents more meaningful discussions.

 

[montgomery]

Anybody who wants what you say you want...

...and who chooses to post here...

...is the kind of person who claims to want peace and quiet...and tries to find it at a raucous rock concert.

THERE ARE NO OTHER FORUMS WHERE ONE CAN DO WHAT ONE CAN DO HERE...

...but you want to change that to where this one must conform to what the others are like.

It makes no sense.

In any case, good luck.

I am hoping the owner of the site and the people with influence here...allow the place to remain exactly like it is.

To that end, I commit to contributing (a very modest amount, since I live at the poverty level) at least twice a year.

If you want to campaign for anything...campaigning for some bucks to help defray costs makes a lot more sense than campaigning to change this to just another Internet forum.

You know very well Frank that Poli isn't going to change this forum. And that's not the objective of my initiative here on this section. It's all about being able to carry on a conversation without the childish spamming that comes from both sides.

When you say you want the forum to stay exactly the way it is, are you saying that attempts to get this section going are not in your interests? If so then I suggest that you can easily ignore it and not be influenced in any way by it, while you continue to post in the wide open section.

How about that Frank? Did I get it about right?

 

[BRUTALITOPS]

I'm aware of the odds and thanks for the warning. Right now it's a little more than just Poli and me and I'm still hoping that the moderators and staff will try to help out a bit.

This site is unique in a couple of ways. The regular section is so devoid of rules ensure any decent discussion. That's both a good thing and a bad thing.

But there's this section of the forum that is also unique and something no other forum I know of truly has. If we can make this section work then it's going to be something different. Sadly, so far, I've only seen what I see as an attempt by the staff to do it harm.

the truth is far more simple than you are willing to admit, namely, most people of JPP are not interested in civil conversation. it really is that simple. there is nothing difficult about posting in this forum. there are few if any hurdles, the rules are actually rather clear and straightforward. I am really not sure what you want us to do. This forum exists, people can use it if they want, or they can stay away if they want. There is nothing else to it.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello bluedream,

the truth is far more simple than you are willing to admit, namely, most people of JPP are not interested in civil conversation.

I've got my own theory on that. A forum with few rules tends to attract the rule-breakers who have been tossed out of other Forums. Since the Forum is full of people who like to make personal attacks, newbies who are not prepared for that, and hope to be treated fairly, have another thing coming. They get attacked for posting their views. Since that is often their first impression of the place, most of them do a quick about-face and leave.

it really is that simple. there is nothing difficult about posting in this forum. there are few if any hurdles, the rules are actually rather clear and straightforward. I am really not sure what you want us to do.

I think what montgomery wants is for you to drop the requirement for special permission to be granted in order to post in APP. I have tried to point out to him that if that were done, and this forum were to actually see more significant participation, that would generate more work for mods. Most JPP posters can't post without making personal attacks. Mods would have to toss everybody who makes a personal attack out. If any personal attacks are allowed, then it becomes a huge gray area. That would make the act of moderation even more subjective than it already is. Are the mods here prepared to take on more work to make that happen?

This forum exists, people can use it if they want, or they can stay away if they want. There is nothing else to it.

With the current arrangement, JPP is a huge turn-off to people seeking civil discourse or anything close to it. It is what it is. APP is not attractive enough to generate much activity, and since there is so little activity it is not attractive. It is a self-fulfilling loop. People who want to post without being nastily attacked also need a minimum activity level to bring them back. That doesn't exist in APP. Posts go unanswered. Those seeking an active site have by then gone elsewhere.

 

[montgomery]

Poli and bluedream, relax. If this forum is made up of mostly childish spammers of the political right then so be it.

If this section of the forum survives then it will perhaps be at least a placee to come for decent people to find refuge from the children. And it's sure to attract some of the children if their ideology is challenged here in any case. They'll have to bitch and compain and spam within the rules for a while at least.

If any of the mods want to help out making this place work, then they will be mods who would like something beyond the childish nonsense themselves. So far I've only seen a staff member come here and aid in promoting the childish behavour by posting on a thread where two of us are banned from posting. Not helpful, but understandable if the status quo of JPP is sacred to protect and rational adult commentary is to be avoided.

I can't understand why they would want that but so be it if that's their choice.

 

[PoliTalker]

I object to the terms 'children' and 'adults' in this context, montgomery. We are all adults here. What you're really talking about is maturity level. Mature people are confident enough in their views to voice them without putting others down. A good argument does not depend on insulting those who disagree. Immature people think the way to drive home their view is to insult those who disagree. (Not very convincing, but they don't care.) Others simply get off on abusing others. They are frustrated because their politics does not work for them. They have to demonize and hate. Abusing someone with whom they disagree is a way to vent their frustrations over their politics not working. As if either the left or the right is ever going away or can be shut up. (Not!) They blame 'the other side' for all the nation's problems, and seek to eliminate 'the other side.' Silly! And totally unrealistic... But they keep trying.

And one may tend to believe that is all that is going on here. But that would be incorrect.

There's plenty of civil discourse at JPP. I use my own PIP to filter out incivility, and still I can't possibly keep up. There is plenty of civil discourse. More than I can keep up with.

The tools are available to customize one's own posting experience, even in the main forum.

Some people have a hang-up over using the Ignore feature. That's their problem. They just need to get over it. There's nothing wrong with judicious use of the Ignore Feature. If they can't get over the hang-up then they become plateaued. They will never rise above that level of maturity. They hold themselves back from higher thinking. Only they can change that. Others cannot do it for them.

There is also this bizarre disdain for using the Ignore Feature. Some take pride in either not using it, or only using it in a limited fashion. What's that really worth to be able to say you don't use the Ignore Feature or you 'only have x entries on Ignore?' I'll tell you what that is worth. Exactly nothing.

People who put down others for using the Ignore Feature are probably trolls who are frustrated because the Ignore Feature is so effective. The Ignore Feature ends online abuse. It takes two for abuse to occur. The abuser and the enabler. The abused must read what the abuser writes or the abuse doesn't work. Refusing to read it shuts it down. If somebody harasses you and you don't place them on Ignore, you are enabling them. You are sending the message that the abuse can continue.

APP and the Ignore Feature both accomplish the same thing. They prevent unwanted posters from harassing somebody. Two tools for essentially the same purpose.

I don't expect much out of APP. It has a stigma. People think there is something wrong with anyone who would want to post in a limited forum. They want to act 'tough.' They want to be able to 'take it' in the unrestricted forum. What does that mean? All that means is that one can immerse themselves in a discussion with the most immature people who think debating politics is all about insulting those with whom they disagree.

I'm not into insults or being mean. I see no purpose in that and few shallow rewards. I just want to talk about politics, stay informed, and learn what motivates other views. By avoiding the insults and flaming, by sticking to the point of discussions, I am able to draw out the part of people that actually does want to talk about politics. I'd love it of others maintained a minimum level of decorum, but that never happens in a wide-open forum, so they only way it can be maintained is with increased moderation activities. That's what APP demands if it is going to flourish. By using a PIP like mine, no additional moderation load is required. It's an example of self-moderation. Each poster designs their own experience.

I'm sure some people put me down for stringent use of the Ignore Feature. That's their choice. Mine is to simply not respond to them. I didn't come here to talk about how to post. I came here to talk about politics. The site is wide open enough to allow me to do that in my own way. If others agree and want to do it in a similar fashion, wonderful. If not, wonderful. I don't really have to care. I get what I come for. And that's why any of us stays and makes the place what it is. We get what we came for. People simply come here for different reasons and it shows. I contribute in my own way, just as everyone else does. Together, we make JPP what it is.

 

[montgomery]

I object to the terms 'children' and 'adults' in this context, montgomery. We are all adults here. What you're really talking about is maturity level. Mature people are confident enough in their views to voice them without putting others down. A good argument does not depend on insulting those who disagree. Immature people think the way to drive home their view is to insult those who disagree. (Not very convincing, but they don't care.) Others simply get off on abusing others. They are frustrated because their politics does not work for them. They have to demonize and hate. Abusing someone with whom they disagree is a way to vent their frustrations over their politics not working. As if either the left or the right is ever going away or can be shut up. (Not!) They blame 'the other side' for all the nation's problems, and seek to eliminate 'the other side.' Silly! And totally unrealistic... But they keep trying.

And one may tend to believe that is all that is going on here. But that would be incorrect.

There's plenty of civil discourse at JPP. I use my own PIP to filter out incivility, and still I can't possibly keep up. There is plenty of civil discourse. More than I can keep up with.

The tools are available to customize one's own posting experience, even in the main forum.

Some people have a hang-up over using the Ignore feature. That's their problem. They just need to get over it. There's nothing wrong with judicious use of the Ignore Feature. If they can't get over the hang-up then they become plateaued. They will never rise above that level of maturity. They hold themselves back from higher thinking. Only they can change that. Others cannot do it for them.

There is also this bizarre disdain for using the Ignore Feature. Some take pride in either not using it, or only using it in a limited fashion. What's that really worth to be able to say you don't use the Ignore Feature or you 'only have x entries on Ignore?' I'll tell you what that is worth. Exactly nothing.

People who put down others for using the Ignore Feature are probably trolls who are frustrated because the Ignore Feature is so effective. The Ignore Feature ends online abuse. It takes two for abuse to occur. The abuser and the enabler. The abused must read what the abuser writes or the abuse doesn't work. Refusing to read it shuts it down. If somebody harasses you and you don't place them on Ignore, you are enabling them. You are sending the message that the abuse can continue.

APP and the Ignore Feature both accomplish the same thing. They prevent unwanted posters from harassing somebody. Two tools for essentially the same purpose.

I don't expect much out of APP. It has a stigma. People think there is something wrong with anyone who would want to post in a limited forum. They want to act 'tough.' They want to be able to 'take it' in the unrestricted forum. What does that mean? All that means is that one can immerse themselves in a discussion with the most immature people who think debating politics is all about insulting those with whom they disagree.

I'm not into insults or being mean. I see no purpose in that and few shallow rewards. I just want to talk about politics, stay informed, and learn what motivates other views. By avoiding the insults and flaming, by sticking to the point of discussions, I am able to draw out the part of people that actually does want to talk about politics. I'd love it of others maintained a minimum level of decorum, but that never happens in a wide-open forum, so they only way it can be maintained is with increased moderation activities. That's what APP demands if it is going to flourish. By using a PIP like mine, no additional moderation load is required. It's an example of self-moderation. Each poster designs their own experience.

I'm sure some people put me down for stringent use of the Ignore Feature. That's their choice. Mine is to simply not respond to them. I didn't come here to talk about how to post. I came here to talk about politics. The site is wide open enough to allow me to do that in my own way. If others agree and want to do it in a similar fashion, wonderful. If not, wonderful. I don't really have to care. I get what I come for. And that's why any of us stays and makes the place what it is. We get what we came for. People simply come here for different reasons and it shows. I contribute in my own way, just as everyone else does. Together, we make JPP what it is.

I hear you again! I don't want to make friends with the lowlife and discuss issues with them. I simply don't view them as being suitable for taking part in any discussion. Do you? People who are proud racists and proud haters and evil enough to make it publicly known that they are the kind of trash that shouldn't even be allowed to walk the streets!

You can't make silk purses out of that kind of sows' ears.

I can't give you names but I will in a private message if you're at any loss of being unable to name them yourself. If you want to try to carry on a conversation with that kind of pigs, then help yourself.

Otherwise, we're winning on this section and there's nothing they can do about it. Positive thinking? How long before the traffic on this section is equal to the traffic on the other part?

Do your best, as I will too, even though I think that there's a pretty lively effort by the staff to uphold the status quo. We're going to get around to talking about that too before long. I've already sent out the challenge to them. One thing though that's worth mentioning between you and me. I don't do temporary bans. They're permanent for me always. That's just my demands of calling a spade a spade. This initiative here on this section is going to fail to work over my 'dead' body. -figuratively speaking of course.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello montgomery,

I hear you again! I don't want to make friends with the lowlife and discuss issues with them. I simply don't view them as being suitable for taking part in any discussion. Do you? People who are proud racists and proud haters and evil enough to make it publicly known that they are the kind of trash that shouldn't even be allowed to walk the streets!

You can't make silk purses out of that kind of sows' ears.

I can't give you names but I will in a private message if you're at any loss of being unable to name them yourself. If you want to try to carry on a conversation with that kind of pigs, then help yourself.

Otherwise, we're winning on this section and there's nothing they can do about it. Positive thinking? How long before the traffic on this section is equal to the traffic on the other part?

Do your best, as I will too, even though I think that there's a pretty lively effort by the staff to uphold the status quo. We're going to get around to talking about that too before long. I've already sent out the challenge to them. One thing though that's worth mentioning between you and me. I don't do temporary bans. They're permanent for me always. That's just my demands of calling a spade a spade. This initiative here on this section is going to fail to work over my 'dead' body. -figuratively speaking of course.

OK, I'm confused. For someone who wants civil discourse you seem to have an edge, some pent up anger.

I don't think this APP section can work on a grand scale. I don't see how it's possible. If it got popular it would require more active moderation at the site. Who is going to do that? More mods would have to come on board to make APP as popular as the rest. I just don't see that happening. I could be wrong. I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. I'll post here, see where it goes.

I can understand some trepidation on the part of the staff to watch the demands for active moderation go up.

I don't see why you're so dead set to make this section work. I have zero problem with abuse in the other forums. Anybody messes with me, they go poof, and they don't do it again. I am totally unconcerned with missing anything they have to say. I already know what motivates their view. Hatred. They made that clear. So I decide I just want distance between us. I don't want to be around hatred. There's plenty of other very interesting people to talk to who don't have to flame on me. This works extremely well.

You're not going to force anybody to be nice with forum rules. If they break the rules they will not be allowed in there. You won't be seeing their posts. That's the same thing as having them on Ignore. So why rag on the mods or the rules and try to change things? There's a perfectly workable solution already right there a few clicks away. You wanna see my Ignore List? Check any of my Threads in the other sections. Look at the thread ban list. That was built one entry at a time. Start your own. Before long nobody is pestering you. Piece of cake. Go ahead steal my PIP. I think it makes so much sense I don't understand why everybody doesn't do it.

I know people have to be themselves, make their own choices. That's fine. Why try to make a forum section that requires no flaming more popular on a site where the big draw for most (who stay) is flaming? Especially when it is going to generate more work for somebody and we don't know who is going to do that, but we do know it won't happen by itself.

 

[montgomery]

OK, I'm confused. For someone who wants civil discourse you seem to have an edge, some pent up anger.

Of course I do! I'm a normal human being who sees evil in racists and social scum of the sort that frequent this forum. Maybe it's me that should be wondering why you turn the other cheek with them. Just because they're your fellow Americans is no reason to consider them human!

That's my edge! My pent up anger if you like.

Especially when it is going to generate more work for somebody and we don't know who is going to do that, but we do know it won't happen by itself.

Phtttt! if they don't want to do the work they can avoid it or pass it on to somebody who will. I would be a mod but I wouldn't work out on this forum, I would just end up banning the schlunks for life.

Poli, the sickness that has inflicted Americans is not mine or the rest of the world's. YOu need to start thinking in terms of equating America to the Nazi regime of the 30's on the rise. Seriously, Trump is not nearly of as sound mind than Hitler was when he appealed to the people based on their lowest aspirations. And the American people are much less intelligent and much more susceptible to picking up their guns and resorting to violence.

You've got a real problem Poli. Consider escape to Canada. None of this can end well!

 

[Evmetro]

I am interested in seeing how things work out here. Montgomery has put efforts into getting more members to come here, so I'll give it a try.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello montgomery,

Of course I do! I'm a normal human being who sees evil in racists and social scum of the sort that frequent this forum. Maybe it's me that should be wondering why you turn the other cheek with them. Just because they're your fellow Americans is no reason to consider them human!

That is exactly what they are, technically.

That's my edge! My pent up anger if you like.

It's a big wide world, full of all types. These attitudes are bound to exist. The way to counter that is with the truth.

Phtttt! if they [tmods] don't want to do the work they can avoid it or pass it on to somebody who will. I would be a mod but I wouldn't work out on this forum, I would just end up banning the schlunks for life.

Well, that's just not very realistic. It doesn't solve the problem of who is going to do all this active moderation to police APP on amped up volume.

Poli, the sickness that has inflicted Americans is not mine or the rest of the world's. YOu need to start thinking in terms of equating America to the Nazi regime of the 30's on the rise. Seriously, Trump is not nearly of as sound mind than Hitler was when he appealed to the people based on their lowest aspirations.

OK, now you're just using the nuclear option to generate more comments. President Trump is not on a conquest of the world. He's just incredibly greedy and egotistical. We've all gotten to know him pretty well by now.

And the American people are much less intelligent and much more susceptible to picking up their guns and resorting to violence.

Now you're making a really big mistake. True there are some American gun nuts, and hate groups and all kinds of anti-social groups. That does not typify Americans. Most of us are a peaceful sort. We really just want to live and let live. It's our leaders who tend to be more antagonistic and stir up wars.

You've got a real problem Poli. Consider escape to Canada. None of this can end well!

LOL. I'll keep that in mind. I like your health care system. But I don't see me dropping my loyalty to the USA any time soon just because we've got a few bad apples. We just need to sort out the good from the bad, pick up the pieces and move on. We will get rid of President Trump soon enough, one way or another. I don't see him getting re-elected unless the Dems somehow split, or they force another super unpopular candidate to the top with a lot of baggage. Hopefully they have learned that doesn't work. They need another hope and change guy with charisma. Like Obama. Another new star. Maybe Castro. Who knows?

Hey. I modified my PIP just for you. I realized it might be a good thing to invite people to adopt a similar policy of their own. So I freely invite anyone to steal my PIP.

"Personal Ignore Policy PIP: Very simple. I am into civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Flame on me, mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you go on my Ignore List. Zero tolerance. PERMANENT. Forever. No exceptions ever. And you will be banned from any Thread I create. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: if you like my PIP, feel free to steal it. It works well."

 

[canceled.2021.1]

I'd love to see more of what you are looking for HERE...

...out in the non-cyber world.

HERE...I am looking for the rough and tumble.

Good luck with APP. My guess is the efforts will go nowhere. Most of the people HERE are HERE for the rough and tumble. The last thing in the world most want to do...is to be courteous and kind.

For the first time since you joined this forum, you are correct about something

 

[montgomery]

I am interested in seeing how things work out here. Montgomery has put efforts into getting more members to come here, so I'll give it a try.

Thanks Evmetro! Actually it wasn't hard at all. It's just a place to come to in order to avoid the bad people who are only interested in spamming and frothing at the mouth about everything. Mostly they just want to scream about how the worship Trump.

I'll be vigilant in keeping an eye on them so they can't spoil this section too.

And remember, if you want to wrestle in the mud with them, they'll always be there on the main section. They'll always love the mud wrestling because it causes others to get muddy and dirty too!

 

[montgomery]

For the first time since you joined this forum, you are correct about something

And thank you too for coming to 'my' section of the forum and stating your position in a decent way! (even though it was a jaded insult)