Advice for my fellow liberals and progressives.

Eagle_Eye said:
Is this the Mina we all knew and loved from Amazon?
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No doubt the old toxic posse has been summoned to combat this horror. :laugh:

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PoliTalker said:
Hello Mina,



OK, it all sounds fine and well. I will try to incorporate the strategy but I still have a hard time envisioning greedy rich white men wanting to see the government spend money to help people they want to believe simply 'made poor choices in life.'
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Yes, it is indeed hard to envision. But I think that's because we grew up in a society that has had a weird culture around social spending, ever since the Civil Rights movement moved race into the center of the discussion. I think there was a time when it was still possible to get massive social programs passed (Social Security and Medicare, for example), as well as massive infrastructure projects aimed at improving lives for the have-nots (e.g., the Rural Electrification Project). And that kind of thing is still possible in most other wealthy nations, where race isn't such a preoccupation. Maybe we can coax white folks out of the obstructionist mindset in the US by keeping the focus, as much as practical, away from race-based sales pitches.
 
Mina said:
Yes, it is indeed hard to envision. But I think that's because we grew up in a society that has had a weird culture around social spending, ever since the Civil Rights movement moved race into the center of the discussion. I think there was a time when it was still possible to get massive social programs passed (Social Security and Medicare, for example), as well as massive infrastructure projects aimed at improving lives for the have-nots (e.g., the Rural Electrification Project). And that kind of thing is still possible in most other wealthy nations, where race isn't such a preoccupation. Maybe we can coax white folks out of the obstructionist mindset in the US by keeping the focus, as much as practical, away from race-based sales pitches.
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If liberals/progressives wouldn't keep race in the limelight, it would go away. You keep accusing us of being racist, but if you'd shut up, racism would go away.
Every American has the same opportunity to make a life here. It's what you do with that opportunity. Your race doesn't have a damn thing to do with it.
 
Hello Mina,

Mina said:
Yes, it is indeed hard to envision. But I think that's because we grew up in a society that has had a weird culture around social spending, ever since the Civil Rights movement moved race into the center of the discussion. I think there was a time when it was still possible to get massive social programs passed (Social Security and Medicare, for example), as well as massive infrastructure projects aimed at improving lives for the have-nots (e.g., the Rural Electrification Project). And that kind of thing is still possible in most other wealthy nations, where race isn't such a preoccupation. Maybe we can coax white folks out of the obstructionist mindset in the US by keeping the focus, as much as practical, away from race-based sales pitches.
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One battle at a time. Now we have to convince selfish people that the government they hate to see expanded should help everyone get the internet.
 
RB 60 said:
If liberals/progressives wouldn't keep race in the limelight, it would go away
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I don't believe so. Although I'm advocating for liberals and progressives to back-burner that way of talking about issues as much as reasonably possible, I don't think that the conservatives are politically stupid: they know that framing things in racial terms inflames the undereducated white folks they rely on to get elected, and so they aren't going to let that just go away.

Go back and read Trump's 2016 convention speech, as an example. At the time, we had some of the lowest murder rates in American history (it was before the record-breaking murder surge of 2020). Yet Trump made fear of urban crime the centerpiece of his speech... talking about it ad nauseum before getting to any economic issues. And the framing of it was very much designed to trigger racial fears -- for example, highlighting murder rates in Chicago, of all places, even though it wasn't in the top ten for murder rates among major American cities, at the time, and had murder rates less than half of what they were in some other cities, like St. Louis. Chicago was associated, in the public mind, with Black people and our Black president, so that's where Trump aimed his fear-mongering. He also focused on violent crime by "border-crossers," even though studies showed immigrants, even illegal immigrants, commit violent crime at lower rates than native-born Americans. Again, that focus was to inflame racial tensions in a way he rightly expected would pay dividends in motivating undereducated white folks to vote for him.

Racism won't go away merely because the left stops talking about it. It's like thinking that if we don't acknowledge the rain it won't make us wet. But, I think there are issues we can tackle more effectively, in terms of marshalling political support, if we try to avoid triggering a racist response in potential supporters, and unfortunately sometimes framing an issue in racial terms is triggering.
 
Mina said:
I don't believe so. Although I'm advocating for liberals and progressives to back-burner that way of talking about issues as much as reasonably possible, I don't think that the conservatives are politically stupid: they know that framing things in racial terms inflames the undereducated white folks they rely on to get elected, and so they aren't going to let that just go away.

Go back and read Trump's 2016 convention speech, as an example. At the time, we had some of the lowest murder rates in American history (it was before the record-breaking murder surge of 2020). Yet Trump made fear of urban crime the centerpiece of his speech... talking about it ad nauseum before getting to any economic issues. And the framing of it was very much designed to trigger racial fears -- for example, highlighting murder rates in Chicago, of all places, even though it wasn't in the top ten for murder rates among major American cities, at the time, and had murder rates less than half of what they were in some other cities, like St. Louis. Chicago was associated, in the public mind, with Black people and our Black president, so that's where Trump aimed his fear-mongering. He also focused on violent crime by "border-crossers," even though studies showed immigrants, even illegal immigrants, commit violent crime at lower rates than native-born Americans. Again, that focus was to inflame racial tensions in a way he rightly expected would pay dividends in motivating undereducated white folks to vote for him.

Racism won't go away merely because the left stops talking about it. It's like thinking that if we don't acknowledge the rain it won't make us wet. But, I think there are issues we can tackle more effectively, in terms of marshalling political support, if we try to avoid triggering a racist response in potential supporters, and unfortunately sometimes framing an issue in racial terms is triggering.
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Bottom line, it's Democrats who keep bringing up racial hatred, not Republicans. You keep screaming TRUMP! It's all you have to cover the Democrats who keep racism alive.
 
My advice to Progressives and Leftists is:

Stay in your bubble and talk to each other. You'll be happier that way. Leave the other 85% of society the fuck alone and stop screwing it up! We the 'normal' people don't appreciate it.
 
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