Air Traffic Controllers Warned US Army Helicopter Ahead Of Crash

Dutch Uncle said:
Good presentation of facts. The most salient point he made was about relative motion. With all the lights in the sky and ground, as the aircraft were headed toward each other, there'd be little to no relative motion to discern what it was other than just another bright light.

One of the displays he presented showed PAT 25 at 300'. The news this morning said the max altitude for that helicopter route was 200', but didn't say if they had permission to fly higher. Altitude separation is obviously important, but in this case, lateral separation was critical. A CRJ700 passing over a UH-60 at 100' would create a lot of wake turbulence. I've had near midairs with less than 50' vertical and lateral separation but always with similar aircraft, not an airliner. The video mentioned wake turbulence as part of the sequencing of traffic into DCA and those aircraft are usually a couple miles apart.
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Thought you'd appreciate that analysis. Mr. Owl sent it to me last night. He has watched literally hours of air crash reconstruction videos. As an engineer by education, he's fascinated with that stuff. If you have any favorites to suggest, pls feel free.
 
Lionfish said:
What you say is true but this might be an odd case. Helicopters by nature, are not very well equipped at observing the sky above. We probably do not have all the tower communication. We do not know if it was flying using night vision which can be disorienting in a well lit environment? It might be that the chopper pilot confused the controller's request with the other plane that was nearby. Did the collision system auto shut down at low altitude?

All questions that need to be answered before casting blame on anyone.
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Yes, several aviation experts say that the communication with the helicopter pilot was not precise. No runway ID. They…and I believe the pilot responded to having a visual of a plane on the adjacent runway.

It appears that the controller was trying to perform too many tasks.

The NTSB people will determine the cause. They are excellent with many years of flight experience and aircraft crashes.
 
Earl said:
Yes, several aviation experts say that the communication with the helicopter pilot was not precise. No runway ID. They…and I believe the pilot responded to having a visual of a plane on the adjacent runway.

It appears that the controller was trying to perform too many tasks.

The NTSB people will determine the cause. They are excellent with many years of flight experience and aircraft crashes.
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Correct. The US has had a number of close calls over the past few years. Big problem for the FAA and NTSB. Let's hope some good comes from this tragedy.
 
Lionfish said:
Correct. The US has had a number of close calls over the past few years. Big problem for the FAA and NTSB. Let's hope some good comes from this tragedy.
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There were four runways at ATL airport when I worked there. There are five now, all CAT III ILS’s except Runway 28.

More airports, more controllers and more runways are needed.

More funding…perhaps we can use some of the Biden/Harris Hamas condom money.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Thought you'd appreciate that analysis. Mr. Owl sent it to me last night. He has watched literally hours of air crash reconstruction videos. As an engineer by education, he's fascinated with that stuff. If you have any favorites to suggest, pls feel free.
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Prior to the video you posted, the one below is the last one I watched. A Cessna 182 has a climb rate of about 500 FPM on a good day. A 2000 FPM downdraft would not be good for a low flying aircraft.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSiIGn5akok
 
Earl said:
There were four runways at ATL airport when I worked there. There are five now, all CAT III ILS’s except Runway 28.

More airports, more controllers and more runways are needed.

More funding…perhaps we can use some of the Biden/Harris Hamas condom money.
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You were doing well until you undermined your own post by both politicizing it and including a lie.

www.politifact.com

The U.S. did not spend $50 million to fund condoms in Gaza

There is no evidence that President Donald Trump’s foreign aid freeze stopped $50 million worth of condoms from going to
www.politifact.com www.politifact.com
  • There is no evidence that the U.S. earmarked $50 million in condoms to Gaza, or that it has recently spent $50 million on condoms in Gaza.
  • On X, a State Department spokesperson said the freeze stopped $100 million in funding to Gaza which included money for contraception.
  • The International Medical Corps in Gaza, which according to information the State Department provided multiple news outlets, would have received that aid, told PolitiFact it has not used any U.S. funding for condoms in Gaza.
 
Earl said:
NYC to open massive 2,000-bed migrant shelter.
FOX News

Illegals before Americans, always with the far left Democratic Socialist loons.
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First, when did MAGAts go against State's Rights?

Second, I know you, like many MAGAts, aren't a Christian. Kicking families into the street in winter is not a moral solution.

Third, I'm fine with deporting illegals, but I'm more supportive of immigration reform. Specifically, as GW Bush asked for; improved access to work visas and enforcement.

Fourth, your hatred of your fellow Americans because they support Christian values is noted.

9hylks.jpg
 
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