American Complacency And Government Corruption

[Dutch Uncle]

Hello Dutch Uncle,



There have always been extremists in both parties, but the Democratic Party has never allowed the extremists to dominate their Party since FDR. Bernie came close in 2016, but the old guard of the party would not allow it. The Democratic Party has a built-in mechanism which acts to prevent an extremist take-over. The Super Delegate System. The Republican party does not have the same setup. There were no Super Delegates in the Republican Party to prevent the DT hostile takeover.

I didn't like it in 2016. I was a Bernie fan. I wanted him IN. And I think he could have beaten DT. Who knows what would have happened, because he would not have had the support of the House nor Senate. He probably would have been sort of a 4 year lame duck and not gotten reelected because he would not have been able to pass any of his proposals. and then the political pendulum would swing in 2020, handing another ten years of reapportioning to Republicans. Yikes!

So there's a silver lining for me if DT loses as big as the polling currently indicates. He is starting to drag down some down-ticket races for Republicans. Biden could have a fully supportive Congress if he wins in November, and the coat tails could reach all the way down to States and once-every-ten-years District reapportionment. About TIME...

Disagreed on the bolded since they let the Clintons run things for two decades. Bernie and AOC are just additional examples of extremist LWers filling in the vacuum left by the Clintons.

We, the People are seeing the true face of the Democratic party since the best Presidential candidate they have to offer is Joe Biden.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Dutch Uncle,

Disagreed on the bolded since they let the Clintons run things for two decades. Bernie and AOC are just additional examples of extremist LWers filling in the vacuum left by the Clintons.

We, the People are seeing the true face of the Democratic party since the best Presidential candidate they have to offer is Joe Biden.

OK, that's just a matter of whether or not you consider Bill Clinton to be an extremist. I do not. He is a big money corporate pawn. He is actually quite moderate in his politics.

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

I hate to sounds so cynical, but being cynical does not make you wrong. But when, I look at the general voting public, I see a bunch of chickens in a chicken coop, and so long as the feed keeps coming the chickens are content, and don't care about anything else, and they don't want to be bothered about anything else. But when the feed stops coming, the chickens all starts to squawk.

The point here, is that the voting public just doesn't understand the serious responsibility to be informed about the candidates, and to vote. Voter apathy, and voter ignorance is the greatest threat to our democracy.

no. you and your elitist attitude are the biggest threat to democracy.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Hello Dutch Uncle,

OK, that's just a matter of whether or not you consider Bill Clinton to be an extremist. I do not. He is a big money corporate pawn. He is actually quite moderate in his politics.

Hillary was the real brains behind those two. Bill just wanted to get his dick sucked. Just so we're on the same page, I included a definition at the bottom.

Both parties have moved toward authoritarian extremism over the past 30 years. This is noted by their refusal to compromise on certain issues and seek to impose their views upon all Americans. It doesn't have to be about healthcare or guns, just the fact they are set in their ways on an issue and seek to jam their set views down the throats of all Americans. They are more about authoritarianism than they are about preserving and increasing freedom for Americans.

Where you and I can probably agree is that the Republicans are more extreme than the Democrats, but that doesn't change the fact the Democrats have moved toward extremism themselves.

Authoritarianism is antithetical to American ideals and, therefore, "extreme".

ex·trem·ist
/ikˈstrēməst/
a person who holds extreme or fanatical political or religious views, especially one who resorts to or advocates extreme action.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Dutch Uncle,

Hillary was the real brains behind those two. Bill just wanted to get his dick sucked. Just so we're on the same page, I included a definition at the bottom.

Both parties have moved toward authoritarian extremism over the past 30 years. This is noted by their refusal to compromise on certain issues and seek to impose their views upon all Americans. It doesn't have to be about healthcare or guns, just the fact they are set in their ways on an issue and seek to jam their set views down the throats of all Americans. They are more about authoritarianism than they are about preserving and increasing freedom for Americans.

Where you and I can probably agree is that the Republicans are more extreme than the Democrats, but that doesn't change the fact the Democrats have moved toward extremism themselves.

Authoritarianism is antithetical to American ideals and, therefore, "extreme".

Agreed that Democrats and Republicans have moved further from the center over time, but I still don't think Democrats are extremist in general. I do think there is strong media pressure to label them that, particularly from Fox and conservative talk radio.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Hello Dutch Uncle,

Agreed that Democrats and Republicans have moved further from the center over time, but I still don't think Democrats are extremist in general. I do think there is strong media pressure to label them that, particularly from Fox and conservative talk radio.

A point we'll have to agree to disagree upon.

Another oddity; why is RW radio and television so popular but every time the LW has tried to replicate it, they've failed. The most notable failure was "Air America". The corruption didn't help. FWIW, I don't listen to screamers on the radio or television.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_America_(radio_network)
The network was financially troubled, however. A scandal involving nearly $1 million in loans from a Boys & Girls Club in New York secretly transacted by Evan Cohen came out in 2005 and was a source of negative publicity. The loans were repaid, but in October 2006, mounting debts forced Air America Radio to file Chapter 11 bankruptcy. The company was bought by New York real estate investor Stephen L. Green and his brother Mark J. Green, who purchased the network in March 2007 for US$4.25 million.[4][5]

The company eventually changed its name from Air America Radio to Air America Media and lastly to just Air America, an effort to establish itself as a broadcaster on multiple media sources including television and the Internet, and one not merely relegated to radio. Always primarily a radio network, on January 21, 2010, Air America went off the air citing difficulties with the current economic environment. It filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy and liquidated itself. Bennett Zier was the company's last CEO including through the bankruptcy and liquidation.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Dutch Uncle,

A point we'll have to agree to disagree upon.

Another oddity; why is RW radio and television so popular but every time the LW has tried to replicate it, they've failed. The most notable failure was "Air America". The corruption didn't help. FWIW, I don't listen to screamers on the radio or television.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_America_(radio_network)
The network was financially troubled, however. A scandal involving nearly $1 million in loans from a Boys & Girls Club in New York secretly transacted by Evan Cohen came out in 2005 and was a source of negative publicity. The loans were repaid, but in October 2006, mounting debts forced Air America Radio to file Chapter 11 bankruptcy. The company was bought by New York real estate investor Stephen L. Green and his brother Mark J. Green, who purchased the network in March 2007 for US$4.25 million.[4][5]

The company eventually changed its name from Air America Radio to Air America Media and lastly to just Air America, an effort to establish itself as a broadcaster on multiple media sources including television and the Internet, and one not merely relegated to radio. Always primarily a radio network, on January 21, 2010, Air America went off the air citing difficulties with the current economic environment. It filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy and liquidated itself. Bennett Zier was the company's last CEO including through the bankruptcy and liquidation.

LW talk is alive and well. Saying that 'every time it has been tried it has failed' is repeating a falsehood. There are successes and failures on both sides. Look at Bill O'Reilly.

Here are a several liberal talk hosts who are doing well:

The Jimmy Dore Show

Thom Hartmann

Stephen Colbert.

Trevor Noah.

Also, RW talk shows tend to delve into more conspiracy theories and emotional loaded stuff than the liberal shows. It's the kind of material which is designed to inflame hatred and reinforce stereotypes. I think that approach is more addictive than the more informative issue centered liberal shows which cause people to think.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Hello Dutch Uncle,



LW talk is alive and well. Saying that 'every time it has been tried it has failed' is repeating a falsehood. There are successes and failures on both sides. Look at Bill O'Reilly.

Here are a several liberal talk hosts who are doing well:

The Jimmy Dore Show

Thom Hartmann

Stephen Colbert.

Trevor Noah.

Also, RW talk shows tend to delve into more conspiracy theories and emotional loaded stuff than the liberal shows. It's the kind of material which is designed to inflame hatred and reinforce stereotypes. I think that approach is more addictive than the more informative issue centered liberal shows which cause people to think.

I don't know the other two, but Colbert is a late night talk show host and Noah is a comedian of the original, and self-admitted, "fake news". If we're simply going to list all LW entertainers, just list the SAG roster and everyone that works in the entertainment industry.

RW conspiracy theory shows brings up that all-important question of "Why?"

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Dutch Uncle,

I don't know the other two, but Colbert is a late night talk show host and Noah is a comedian of the original, and self-admitted, "fake news". If we're simply going to list all LW entertainers, just list the SAG roster and everyone that works in the entertainment industry.

RW conspiracy theory shows brings up that all-important question of "Why?"

Well obviously since the 'other two' are included, it is not 'simply listing all LW entertainers.'

And then there is this: The left gathers information differently from the right. There are many sources of information for the left, but the hard right calls all those main stream media sources 'fake news,' and only wants to watch Fox, dote on DT's tweets, or stay in their RW bubble of conservative talk show hosts. The broad spread distrust of the media on the right is well known. People who choose to not be well informed are, well, not well informed.

RW extremists can't even talk to me. I'm open to talking with anyone who can carry on a mutually respectful conversation, but as soon as people get a certain distance from the center they tend to develop a hatred for the opposing side which prevents them from civil discourse. If you don't agree with them that the left is [insert favorite derogatory names, insults, etc] then they are going to insult YOU. I give everyone a chance here in this forum and simply make it clear that I want to talk about the issues, not one another, but they can't do it. I don't place RW extremists on Ignore because of their political views. I have to do it because of their highly disrespectful demeanor. And that's sad. How can they possibly envision a functional country when they themselves are so dysfunctional?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Hello Dutch Uncle,



Well obviously since the 'other two' are included, it is not 'simply listing all LW entertainers.'

And then there is this: The left gathers information differently from the right. There are many sources of information for the left, but the hard right calls all those main stream media sources 'fake news,' and only wants to watch Fox, dote on DT's tweets, or stay in their RW bubble of conservative talk show hosts. The broad spread distrust of the media on the right is well known. People who choose to not be well informed are, well, not well informed.

RW extremists can't even talk to me. I'm open to talking with anyone who can carry on a mutually respectful conversation, but as soon as people get a certain distance from the center they tend to develop a hatred for the opposing side which prevents them from civil discourse. If you don't agree with them that the left is [insert favorite derogatory names, insults, etc] then they are going to insult YOU. I give everyone a chance here in this forum and simply make it clear that I want to talk about the issues, not one another, but they can't do it. I don't place RW extremists on Ignore because of their political views. I have to do it because of their highly disrespectful demeanor. And that's sad. How can they possibly envision a functional country when they themselves are so dysfunctional?

That's what I'm pointing out. Not the shows, but why some are popular than others. What's the #1 cable news show? Not just now, but ever? Tucker Carlson.

What is the most watched cable news network by a factor of almost 2 to 1? Fox

Why? I rarely watch Fox and I could lose half the fingers on one hand and still count the number of times I've watched his show. Of course, I didn't watch "Friends" either soooooo.....

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Dutch Uncle,

That's what I'm pointing out. Not the shows, but why some are popular than others. What's the #1 cable news show? Not just now, but ever? Tucker Carlson.

What is the most watched cable news network by a factor of almost 2 to 1? Fox

Why? I rarely watch Fox and I could lose half the fingers on one hand and still count the number of times I've watched his show. Of course, I didn't watch "Friends" either soooooo.....

Friends was great. Loved it. Jennifer Anniston! And when she was young. Those were the days. I have heard that if you watched Friends you were liberal, and if you watched The Apprentice you were conservative. Apparently they competed for the same time slot.

The reason for Fox ratings is: it is the only network like that. If you add up all the others (because liberals enjoy a wider selection of acceptable programming) then the ratings are more equal.

I can't imagine climate-deniers watching science shows that say the climate is warming. And so many nature shows refer to the situation and it's effects on wildlife. And then you get Stephen Hawking talking about how the universe came about and how long ago it was, and you lose all the evangelicals. They are not going to watch that. There's realy little point in even having TV's that tune in all the channels for conservatives. They would be fine if the TV only got one channel and it was Fox. If such TV's existed at a lower price, they would surely sell.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Hello Dutch Uncle

Friends was great. Loved it. Jennifer Anniston! And when she was young. Those were the days. I have heard that if you watched Friends you were liberal, and if you watched The Apprentice you were conservative. Apparently they competed for the same time slot.

The reason for Fox ratings is: it is the only network like that. If you add up all the others (because liberals enjoy a wider selection of acceptable programming) then the ratings are more equal.

I can't imagine climate-deniers watching science shows that say the climate is warming. And so many nature shows refer to the situation and it's effects on wildlife. And then you get Stephen Hawking talking about how the universe came about and how long ago it was, and you lose all the evangelicals. They are not going to watch that. There's realy little point in even having TV's that tune in all the channels for conservatives. They would be fine if the TV only got one channel and it was Fox. If such TV's existed at a lower price, they would surely sell.

I never watched "the Apprentice" either. Reality TV is about as real as wrestling. Jennifer Anniston is hotter now IMO.

In the past I'd disagree that CNN and MSNBC were splitting the viewership but nowadays many of the shows on CNN have moved far left: Cuomo and Lemon being the most obvious.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Dutch Uncle,

I never watched "the Apprentice" either. Reality TV is about as real as wrestling. Jennifer Anniston is hotter now IMO.

In the past I'd disagree that CNN and MSNBC were splitting the viewership but nowadays many of the shows on CNN have moved far left: Cuomo and Lemon being the most obvious.

Well that's the thing. Depending on how far left viewers want their content there are plenty of main stream choices. One could say that the main stream programming is liberal but it is just as true to say that liberal programming is main stream, meaning that's what sells and that's what people identify with and want. If they don't want that, then the only main stream choice left is Fox.

I would add that since that is what the main stream wants, then that means the country itself has moved left over the years.

This is in response to how selfish, hateful, exclusionary and inconsiderate the right has become. There is a reason the Republican party is the party of rich old white men. Most other demographics have been driven off. This is because the policies of the selfish power-entrenched right offer them nothing. No health care, no decent jobs nor job security, no advancement, and no opportunity. The constant threats to slash the social safety net are no way to endear disadvantaged young people who simply want to build a better life. The victimization and hate mongering also drive people off.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Hello Dutch Uncle,

Well that's the thing. Depending on how far left viewers want their content there are plenty of main stream choices. One could say that the main stream programming is liberal but it is just as true to say that liberal programming is main stream, meaning that's what sells and that's what people identify with and want. If they don't want that, then the only main stream choice left is Fox.

I would add that since that is what the main stream wants, then that means the country itself has moved left over the years.

This is in response to how selfish, hateful, exclusionary and inconsiderate the right has become. There is a reason the Republican party is the party of rich old white men. Most other demographics have been driven off. This is because the policies of the selfish power-entrenched right offer them nothing. No health care, no decent jobs nor job security, no advancement, and no opportunity. The constant threats to slash the social safety net are no way to endear disadvantaged young people who simply want to build a better life. The victimization and hate mongering also drive people off.

Cable news is a business and any profitable business gives the customers what they want. If CNN is swinging Left, it's because they make more money that way.

While I agree the Right has become authoritarian assholes, I'm not happy with the authoritarian Left either.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Dutch Uncle,

Cable news is a business and any profitable business gives the customers what they want. If CNN is swinging Left, it's because they make more money that way.

While I agree the Right has become authoritarian assholes, I'm not happy with the authoritarian Left either.

That's probably why the calm rational people are not found at the political extremes. They are closer to the middle.

The problem with the extremes is they can not possibly have a vision of a USA which meets their beliefs. Attempting to drive off, insult, disgrace, shame, those who disagree so that only those of similar extreme views remain and are viable is simply not possible, not realistic, never going to happen. What do they serious expect should happen to all the people who disagree with them? Where would they all go?

People who are drawn to fringe groups are stuck. The main stream will never adopt extreme views. They cannot possibly have the nation they dream of.

They are disenfranchised from greater society, so they shun it and envision an impossible world which excludes most of the population.

They never stop to wonder how the country can even function without most of the population.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Hello Dutch Uncle,



That's probably why the calm rational people are not found at the political extremes. They are closer to the middle.

The problem with the extremes is they can not possibly have a vision of a USA which meets their beliefs. Attempting to drive off, insult, disgrace, shame, those who disagree so that only those of similar extreme views remain and are viable is simply not possible, not realistic, never going to happen. What do they serious expect should happen to all the people who disagree with them? Where would they all go?

People who are drawn to fringe groups are stuck. The main stream will never adopt extreme views. They cannot possibly have the nation they dream of.

They are disenfranchised from greater society, so they shun it and envision an impossible world which excludes most of the population.

They never stop to wonder how the country can even function without most of the population.

Agreed. In short, extremists paint themselves into a corner where there is not only no way out but there is no room for maneuver.

Fortunately, they are few in number even if very loud. Unfortunately, Congress tends to listen to "squeaky wheels". This is why I think it's important for everyone to vote, even if they vote Third Party. Make some noise, but do it legally.

 

[Cancel 2020.2]

Agreed. In short, extremists paint themselves into a corner where there is not only no way out but there is no room for maneuver.

Fortunately, they are few in number even if very loud. Unfortunately, Congress tends to listen to "squeaky wheels". This is why I think it's important for everyone to vote, even if they vote Third Party. Make some noise, but do it legally.

Good point, Dutchy.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Geeko Sportivo,

Agreed. In short, extremists paint themselves into a corner where there is not only no way out but there is no room for maneuver.

Fortunately, they are few in number even if very loud. Unfortunately, Congress tends to listen to "squeaky wheels". This is why I think it's important for everyone to vote, even if they vote Third Party. Make some noise, but do it legally.

Absolutely.

The larger our elections are, the more turnout, the better.

The more engaged the populace is in the machinations of our government, the more functional our government becomes.

The very fact that apathy is so rampant is what allows the corruption of big money to be so effective.

And the reason for that is simple.

Big money buys the votes of the easily persuaded.

When people are better informed on their own, they are less likely to be swayed by sound byte advertising. They are voting from a position of self-driven awareness.

Ask not what your country can do for you, this is what you can do for your country. Get better informed. Stay well informed. Be engaged. This is a do-it-yourself country, of the people, by the people, for the people.

If we drop the ball on that it becomes a country of the rich, by the rich, for the rich.

We know how to turn that around, and it's time we did so.