Archaeology of the New Testament

[Dutch Uncle]

30% of a billion sounds like "many" to me.

Sure, it may be true that the number who believe the Bible is literal will decrease over time, but why? Considering all of the improbable events documented in the Bible, why is that particular story questioned more than others?

Education + industrialization = more fact-based thinking. "Many" is a word used by people who don't have facts, only guesses.

You love to Christian-bash, but never bash Muslims, the fastest growing religion in the world. Why the bias? Are you secretly Muslim? You fear Muslims will hunt you down and stuff your cock down your throat?

86% of Muslim Americans Believe Quran is ‘Word of God’

Overall, Muslim Americans are fairly traditional in their religious beliefs, with 86% saying that the Koran is "the word of God," half (50%) saying that the Koran is to be read literally, word for word, and fewer than one-in-10 American Muslims (8%) saying the Koran is a book written by men. In this

www.cair.com

Overall, Muslim Americans are fairly traditional in their religious beliefs, with 86% saying that the Koran is “the word of God,” half (50%) saying that the Koran is to be read literally, word for word, and fewer than one-in-10 American Muslims (8%) saying the Koran is a book written by men.

In this regard, Muslims in this country are more likely to adopt a strict literal view of the Koran than American Christians, of which 78% believe the Bible is the word of God (40% saying it is literally, word for word) and 15% saying the Bible is written by men.

Globally, Islam grew faster than all other religions from 2010-2020

From 2010 to 2020, the number of Muslims increased by 347 million people to 2.0 billion people.

www.pewresearch.org

 

[Ichabod Stain]

Agreed.

Also factor in that for thousands of years (until Gutenberg in 1450s) villages and tribes only had one book and in Europe, that book was the Bible. Like the Code of Hammurabi, the Bible served as a code of law. It also served as a health guide in an age without refrigeration and severe lack of medical science. Like Aesop's Fables, it also provided stories with morals. While there is history in the Bible, many of the stories are apocryphal although they often make a point.


Good example.

basic.

boring.

thanks for nothing.

 

[Cypress]

Agreed.

Also factor in that for thousands of years (until Gutenberg in 1450s) villages and tribes only had one book and in Europe, that book was the Bible. Like the Code of Hammurabi, the Bible served as a code of law. It also served as a health guide in an age without refrigeration and severe lack of medical science. Like Aesop's Fables, it also provided stories with morals.

You're right. The Mosaic Law that permeates the Torah is a code of civil law, ritual law, dietary law, holiness codes, sacrificial law intended for the theocracy of Israel.

While there is history in the Bible, many of the stories are apocryphal although they often make a point.

History and historical biography as a literary styles simply did not exist as a literary genre in the ancient Near East. The first people to start writing what we would recognize as history books were the Greeks and Romans of the classical period.

 

[ZenMode]

Education + industrialization = more fact-based thinking. "Many" is a word used by people who don't have facts, only guesses.

So, as we become more educated and intelligent, we realize that it would be basically impossible for the events surrounding Noah's ark to be factual, yet Christians still believe that a human came back from the dead after 3 days and a talking serpent convinced adam and Eve, the humans that God zapped into existence, to eat an apple before they went on a wild sex spree where they populated the earth, over a period of 1,000 years, via widespread incest?

Do I have that right?

 

[Cypress]

The Bible isn't viewed as a poetry book for entertainment. The Bible is viewed, by many, as the inerrant word of God. A billion people have structure their lives around it.

Christians worship God. They don't worship the Bible.

"Many"? What does that mean?
I'm sure that for your motives and agenda it's convenient to believe that almost Christians believe the Bible is a book of history and historical biography that is a literal account of historical events.

Unlike you, I have an extended history of attending multiple types of Christian churches and fellowships. None of the ones I attended said to check your brain at the door and treat the entire Bible as literal historical biography and scientific reporting.

You invested a lot of meaning in the word inerrant without really thinking about what it means.
"Inerrant" does not give you license to ignore literary style. You can take poetry and parable as inerrant and read them literally. But you have to respect literary style. You don't read and interpret poetry and parable the way you would read a scientific report or a historical biography.

So, why do you believe that the story of the flood is just a story while you believe that the other just as unlikely events in the Bible are true?

The Bible is not one big book.

It is a collection of books written in many different literary styles and from many perspectives.

An educated person respects literary style, and recognizes the Book of Job as an ancient story compiled by scribes which functions as a parable, while recognizing the Gospel of Luke is a report of what the eyewitnesses claim to have seen, although it also contains hyperbole and parable.
The intelligent reader can easily recognize the story of the Good Samaritan is a parable while the arrest and execution of Jesus is a historical claim.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

So, as we become more educated and intelligent, we realize that it would be basically impossible for the events surrounding Noah's ark to be factual, yet Christians still believe that a human came back from the dead after 3 days and a talking serpent convinced adam and Eve, the humans that God zapped into existence, to eat an apple before they went on a wild sex spree where they populated the earth, over a period of 1,000 years, via widespread incest?

Do I have that right?

No shit. You finally get a fucking clue, Mode. Yes, as the numbers prove, some do just like Muslims believe the Quran is the holy word of God.

Your aversion to facts in favor of your personal opinion is why I see you as the flip-side of a Bible-thumbing Jesus Freak.

A main reason I like @Cypress so much is because, unlike you, he discusses topics in a logical and fact-based manner. Not from an emotional POV like you and the fact less, emotional nutjobs on this thread.

Google AI: Belief by Denomination and Group
Belief in the physical resurrection is a central tenet of the faith, but internal surveys show some variation across traditions:

• Evangelical Protestants: 90%–98% affirm the biblical account of the resurrection.
• Black Protestants: Approximately 89% believe Jesus rose from the dead.
• Catholics: Roughly 79%–91% affirm the bodily resurrection.
• Mainline Protestants: Between 74% and 78% hold this belief.
• Practicing Christians: 90% of those who attend services at least monthly say they believe the biblical accounts.

‘He Is Risen’: 60% Believe in the Resurrection of Jesus

Easter Sunday celebrates a real event, according to a majority of Americans.

www.rasmussenreports.com

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone and online survey finds that 60% of American Adults believe that Jesus Christ rose from the dead – down from 70% five years ago – while 22% don’t share the Christian belief in the resurrection and 18% are not sure. (To see survey question wording, click here.)

What Do Americans Believe About Easter? - Lifeway Research

Easter remains a popular holiday and may even inspire a church visit, but many still don’t recognize the day's theological significance.

research.lifeway.com

Two-thirds of U.S. adults (65%) say the biblical accounts of the physical resurrection of Jesus are completely accurate, according to Lifeway Research.Share on X

Americans with evangelical beliefs are more likely than those without such beliefs to accept the resurrection (98% v. 57%). Nine in 10 Americans who attend a religious service at least monthly (90%) say they believe the biblical accounts of Jesus’s resurrection.

One of the few demographics in which a majority don’t believe is those who attend religious services less frequently. Less than half of those who attend less than monthly (46%) affirm the belief.

 

[Cypress]

Many Americans support MAGA. Many Americans seek to ban guns. Many atheists are obnoxious assholes. Many over age 35 are the most assholish.

Honest people post honest numbers.
Example: https://news.gallup.com/poll/394262/fewer-bible-literal-word-god.aspx
The majority of Christians (58%) say the Bible is the inspired word of God but not everything in it is to be taken literally, while 25% say it should be interpreted literally and 16% say it is an ancient book of fables.

More granularly, 30% of Protestants say that the Bible is literally true, compared with 15% of Catholics. Almost two-thirds of Catholics choose the alternative that the Bible is the inspired word of God, but every word should not be taken literally.

As was the case in 2017, belief in a literal Bible is highest among those who are more religious and among those with less formal education. Americans who identify as evangelical or born again are much more likely than others to view the Bible as literally true, although even among this group, the percentage believing in a literal Bible is well less than 50%.

The overall, basic message of the New Testament has the ring of truth and justice to me: universal love, golden rule, love your neighbor as yourself, strive to keep your thoughts and words pure, bless the peacemakers, lift up the poor and oppressed, do not judge.

When you get to the point of arguing about whether Paul actually wrote all 13 letters attributed to him, or quarreling about whether the Book of Job is historical biography or parable, those types of complaints start to seem pretty trivial.

 

[Ichabod Stain]

Christians worship God. They don't worship the Bible.

"Many"? What does that mean?
I'm sure that for your motives and agenda it's convenient to believe that almost Christians believe the Bible is a book of history and historical biography that is a literal account of historical events.

Unlike you, I have an extended history of attending multiple types of Christian churches and fellowships. None of the ones I attended said to check your brain at the door and treat the entire Bible as literal historical biography and scientific reporting.

You invested a lot of meaning in the word inerrant without really thinking about what it means.
"Inerrant" does not give you license to ignore literary style. You can take poetry and parable as inerrant and read them literally. But you have to respect literary style. You don't read and interpret poetry and parable the way you would read a scientific report or a historical biography.


The Bible is not one big book.

It is a collection of books written in many different literary styles and from many perspectives.

An educated person respects literary style, and recognizes the Book of Job as an ancient story compiled by scribes which functions as a parable, while recognizing the Gospel of Luke is a report of what the eyewitnesses claim to have seen, although it also contains hyperbole and parable.
The intelligent reader can easily recognize the story of the Good Samaritan is a parable while the arrest and execution of Jesus is a historical claim.

basic and boring.

 

[ZenMode]

Christians worship God. They don't worship the Bible.

It's all based on the Bible, the teachings of the Bible and believing the Bible. Ever gone to church?

"Many"? What does that mean?

Millions.

I'm sure that for your motives and agenda it's convenient to believe that almost Christians believe the Bible is a book of history and historical biography that is a literal account of historical events.

Unlike you, I have an extended history of attending multiple types of Christian churches and fellowships. None of the ones I attended said to check your brain at the door and treat the entire Bible as literal historical biography and scientific reporting.

You invested a lot of meaning in the word inerrant without really thinking about what it means.
"Inerrant" does not give you license to ignore literary style. You can take poetry and parable as inerrant and read them literally. But you have to respect literary style. You don't read and interpret poetry and parable the way you would read a scientific report or a historical biography.


The Bible is not one big book.

It is a collection of books written in many different literary styles and from many perspectives.

An educated person respects literary style, and recognizes the Book of Job as an ancient story compiled by scribes which functions as a parable, while recognizing the Gospel of Luke is a report of what the eyewitnesses claim to have seen, although it also contains hyperbole and parable.
The intelligent reader can easily recognize the story of the Good Samaritan is a parable while the arrest and execution of Jesus is a historical claim.

This is all just distraction to avoid answer my question.

 

[Cypress]

It's all based on the Bible, the teachings of the Bible and believing the Bible

The only thing you have complained about are stories from the Jewish Torah.

There is no requirement in any Christian church I have attended that one must believe the story of Noah's Ark is a historical biography which is a literal and accurate description of a historical event.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

The only thing you have complained about are stories from the Jewish Torah.

There is no requirement in any Christian church I have attended that one must believe the story of Noah's Ark is a historical biography that is a literal and accurate description of a historical event.

Still, one has to marvel at how he kept the lions from eating the zebras and giraffes, no?

 

[Into the Night]

If the Bible story about Adam & Eve is true, then we are all descendants of Adam and Eve....and the result of a LOT of incest.

Go find out what 'incest' means.

 

[Into the Night]

your new Bible thumper persona is stupid and gay.

you're a fool.

YARP. Go learn English. Random phrases is not English.

 

[Into the Night]

The only thing you have complained about are stories from the Jewish Torah.

Lie. Denial.

There is no requirement in any Christian church I have attended that one must believe the story of Noah's Ark is a historical biography which is a literal and accurate description of a historical event.

So you discard the Bible.

 

[ZenMode]

The only thing you have complained about are stories from the Jewish Torah.

Which is part of the Bible. The NT, and all of Christianity, is based on the belief that Jesus came back from the dead after 3 days. That's a NT claim.

There is no requirement in any Christian church I have attended that one must believe the story of Noah's Ark is a historical biography which is a literal and accurate description of a historical event.

Again, why cherry pick that story as the one you don't believe? Do you believe the story of Adam & Eve as it's written in the Bible? Do you believe that we all exist because of hundreds of years of incest? Do you believe that a human body, that has been dead for 3 days, actually came back to life? If you believe that, why not believe the Ark story?

 

[Into the Night]

Still, one has to marvel at how he kept the lions from eating the zebras and giraffes, no?

You don't think God, which created these animals, has the power to sustain them without lions eating the sheep?

 

[Into the Night]

Which is part of the Bible. The NT, and all of Christianity, is based on the belief that Jesus came back from the dead after 3 days. That's a NT claim.

Again, why cherry pick that story as the one you don't believe? Do you believe the story of Adam & Eve as it's written in the Bible? Do you believe that we all exist because of hundreds of years of incest? Do you believe that a human body, that has been dead for 3 days, actually came back to life? If you believe that, why not believe the Ark story?

Go learn what 'incest' means, Void.

 

[Into the Night]

The literary structure of parallelism in Genesis 1 strongly suggests it's Hebrew poetry.

There you go again! This is how you made my sig!

 

[ZenMode]

Go find out what 'incest' means.

Done. Anything else?

 

[ZenMode]

Go learn what 'incest' means, Void.

Done. Anything else?