Are Biblical Laws About Homosexuality Eternal? Op-Ed by R.E.Friedman and S. Dolansky

poet

Banned
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-elliott-friedman/biblical-law-on-homosexuality_b_911963.html

One of the recent reviews of "The Bible Now" that was favorable on the whole criticized us on one point in our chapter on homosexuality. The reviewer said that we were liberals, with a liberal agenda, and that we had twisted the clear meaning of the biblical law to fulfill that agenda.



Others have criticized us at times in our careers for being conservative.



As we said in the first of these posts and in the book, we are scholars, not politicians. Our job isn't to score points for a side, push an agenda or to re-size the Bible to fit our personal views. So far as we know, all the other reviews and endorsements we have received thus far have gotten that point. That doesn't make this one claim in this one review wrong. We don't determine the truth by majority vote. Nor have we ever written a response to a review. So what are we supposed to do when someone criticizes both our scholarship and our integrity in one shot? We do what scholars are supposed to do. We go back to the evidence. So here's the text and a summary of the evidence:

"You shall not lay a male the layings of a woman; it is a to'ebah" (offensive thing)

(Leviticus 18:22).

"And a man who will lay a male the layings of a woman: the two of them have done a to'ebah (offensive thing). They shall be put to death. Their blood is on them"

(Leviticus 20:13).

We just want to remind you first that this is just one point in a larger treatment of a very controversial subject, and there's much more to the chapter. There are several points here that call for treatment: Why does the text prohibit only male homosexual acts and not female? Which acts does it forbid: only penetrative intercourse, or all acts? These are in that chapter, and they're important, but they're not the subject of this post.

The point on which we were thought to be "twisting" came up later in our discussion. We acknowledged that many people have recognized that these two texts pretty clearly do prohibit at least some kinds of male-male sex, but they have asked whether there is any legitimate "way out," anything in the text that might provide for some change in the law. For example, one of our students once pointed out that it is, after all, impossible to lie with a man in the way one does with a woman -- namely, vaginal sex -- so no one can violate this commandment! That's a clever, even fascinating idea, but why then would the commandment exist if it prohibits something that is impossible anyway? And besides, the plural phrase "a woman's layings" (miskebê 'issah) implies that many acts, not just vaginal sex, are included here.

Similarly, a daughter of one of the authors of this book pointed out that a homosexual man may not mind a commandment that tells him that he can't lie with men the way he lies with women because he does not lie with women! This, too, is not a compelling argument, (though it's clever). We considered other such arguments as well but found all of them inadequate. For left or right, liberal or conservative, gay or straight, we don't think that we can define our way out of the question by looking for such loopholes in the law. The law really means what pretty much everyone has taken it to mean for centuries. Whatever view one takes, one must address the law fairly in terms of what it says.



So we sought to contribute another perspective that we believe can be helpful on this subject. The text identifies male homosexual acts by the technical term to'ebah, translated in English here as "an offensive thing" or in older translations as "an abomination." This is important because most things that are forbidden in biblical law are not identified with this word. In both of the contexts in Leviticus (chapters 18 and 20), male homosexuality is the only act to be called this. (Other acts are included broadly in a line at the end of chapter 18.) So this term, which is an important one in the Bible in general, is particularly important with regard to the law about male homosexual acts.

The question is: Is this term to'ebah an absolute, meaning that an act that is a to'ebah is wrong in itself and can never be otherwise? Or is the term relative -- meaning that something that is a to'ebah to one person may not be offensive to another, or something that is a to'ebah in one culture may not be offensive in another, or something that is a to'ebah in one generation or time period may not be offensive in another -- in which case the law may change as people's perceptions change?



When one examines all the occurrences of this technical term in the Hebrew Bible, one finds that elsewhere the term is in fact relative. For example, in the story of Joseph and his brothers in Genesis, Joseph tells his brothers that, if the Pharaoh asks them what their occupation is, they should say that they're cowherds. They must not say that they are shepherds. Why? Because, Joseph explains, all shepherds are an offensive thing (to'ebah) to the Egyptians. But shepherds are not an offensive thing to the Israelites or Moabites or many other cultures. In another passage in that story, we read that Egyptians don't eat with Israelites because that would be an offensive thing (to'ebah) to them. But Arameans and Canaanites eat with Israelites and don't find it offensive. See also the story of the Exodus from Egypt, where Moses tells Pharaoh that the things that Israelites sacrifice would be an offensive thing (to'ebah) to the Egyptians. But these things are certainly not an offensive thing to the Israelites.



A former student of ours pointed out that right here in this text, in the broad inclusion of laws that are to'ebah at the end of Leviticus 18, are some that prohibit actions that the great patriarchs of the Bible had done. For example, Abraham marries his half-sister Sarah. He says:

"She is, in fact, my sister, my father's daughter but not my mother's daughter, and she became a wife to me" (Genesis 20:12).

But the law in Leviticus explicitly forbids such relations with a half-sister:

"Your sister's nudity -- your father's daughter or your mother's daughter, born home or born outside -- you shall not expose their nudity" (Leviticus 18:9).

So what is not a to'ebah in the generation of the patriarchs has changed and become one in the generation of Moses. In a somewhat different way, the land itself can change from not being a to'ebah and can become a to'ebah as a result of the behavior of its residents on it. The prophet Jeremiah says:

"You defiled my land, and made my possession into an offensive thing (to'ebah)" (Jeremiah 2:7).

An act or an object that is not a to'ebah can become one, depending on time and circumstances. The word to'ebah does not automatically mean that something is immoral. Depending on the context, the period and the persons involved, it means that it offends some group.



Now, one might respond that the law here is different because it concerns an offensive thing to God -- and is therefore not subject to the relativity of human values. But that is actually not the case here. The Bible specifically identifies such laws about things that are divine offenses with the phrase "an offensive thing to the LORD" (to'ebat yhwh). That phrase is not used here in the law about male homosexual acts. It is not one of the laws that are identified as a to'ebah to God!

If this is right, then it is an amazing irony. Calling male homosexual acts a to'ebah was precisely what made the biblical text seem so absolutely anti-homosexual and without the possibility of change. But it is precisely the fact of to'ebah that opens the possibility of the law's change. So, (1) whatever position one takes on this matter, left or right, conservative or liberal, one should acknowledge that the law really does forbid homosexual sex between males but not between females. And (2) one should recognize that the biblical prohibition is not one that is eternal and unchanging. The prohibition in the Bible applies only so long as male homosexual acts are perceived to be offensive. This could involve arguments and evidence from specialists in biology, psychology and culture. They are beyond our range of expertise as Bible scholars. Our task here has been to make the biblical evidence known.

Our colleagues with expertise in biblical scholarship and especially in biblical Hebrew may agree with or challenge this analysis. So far they have been complimentary. But that reviewer claimed that we are playing a "game," that we find the text in Leviticus to be "an embarrassment," that we "belong to the category of Bible-seekers who do not believe that the Bible is divinely revealed," and he completely misunderstood our treatment of the context of this law in the ancient world, calling it "a remarkable performance." He thinks he knows our motives, our religious beliefs and our political side -- and, apparently, our ethics. We can't deny that this is hurtful and frustrating to be so badly misread. The reviewer does not come on as an enemy. On the contrary, he writes, "The Bible Now is an honorable book." He just apparently thought we had dropped the honorable ball in this one section.



So, in the end, how do you decide if this is serious scholarship or if that person was right to think that we were doing the twist? We always hated authors who answer every question with, "Read my book." But, in all honesty, to answer this question, that's exactly what the discerning reader ought to do: Read the whole thing yourself.

Note: The review appeared in Tablet on July 5 and was republished in The New Republic online on July 12. The author was Adam Kirsch. It should not be confused with a review by Jonathan Kirsch, who wrote that "Their approach is based on an exacting and meticulous examination of what the biblical text actually says and means." (JewishJournal.com, June 16)

This is the third in a series of posts examining the Hebrew Bible and the issues of our day



Since the passages from Leviticus come from Hebrew, I'd say this is definitive proof that 1) Levitical Code (law) was binding only on Jews and 2) the passage about homosexuality was not one of the laws identified as to' ebah (offensive) to God. Period. - poet
 
I always love these arguments. They are so fruitful.

:)

Seriously though, there is a difference between the purity laws (changed by the New Covenant) and something considered "abomination" in the Bible. However, as far as I understand it, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and all can be forgiven with belief. (I think it is Romans 1:27 in the New Testament that repeats the "abomination" thing).

Of course in my religious philosophy (I am a Buddhist) it takes a bit more work to gather that kind of "forgiveness", and it isn't quite the same thing and the "washing away" of sins just by stating something about believing in somebody. (It also wouldn't be a "sin" in Buddhism unless you did it to harm another, which I would doubt you do). As far as I understand it, all sins are forgiven when one is "born again"...
 
For example, Abraham marries his half-sister Sarah. He says:

"She is, in fact, my sister, my father's daughter but not my mother's daughter, and she became a wife to me" (Genesis 20:12).

But the law in Leviticus explicitly forbids such relations with a half-sister:

"Your sister's nudity -- your father's daughter or your mother's daughter, born home or born outside -- you shall not expose their nudity" (Leviticus 18:9).

lol.....someone should point out to the author that Abraham was committing the sin of lying in Genesis 20, not the sin of incest......
 
lol.....someone should point out to the author that Abraham was committing the sin of lying in Genesis 20, not the sin of incest......

Can you tell me if there was a differentiation between sin? From what I understand that without grace you won't see paradise, is homosexuality a sin that can never be forgiven?
 
I always love these arguments. They are so fruitful.

:)

Seriously though, there is a difference between the purity laws (changed by the New Covenant) and something considered "abomination" in the Bible. However, as far as I understand it, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and all can be forgiven with belief. (I think it is Romans 1:27 in the New Testament that repeats the "abomination" thing).

Of course in my religious philosophy (I am a Buddhist) it takes a bit more work to gather that kind of "forgiveness", and it isn't quite the same thing and the "washing away" of sins just by stating something about believing in somebody. (It also wouldn't be a "sin" in Buddhism unless you did it to harm another, which I would doubt you do). As far as I understand it, all sins are forgiven when one is "born again"...

And being "born again', does not signify never sinning again, but endeavoring toward that end, no matter how unsuccessful. Some people are under the premise that "being born again" means that they will never sin. Sins are committed , daily, by commission and omission.
 
They think "born, again" means a get out of jail free card...well, some do, others think that you still have to workon it, depends on what sect you are referring to.
 
And being "born again', does not signify never sinning again, but endeavoring toward that end, no matter how unsuccessful. Some people are under the premise that "being born again" means that they will never sin. Sins are committed , daily, by commission and omission.

As you have exhibited on a daily basis, just on these forums.
 
The bible has been used to defend slavery, justify the Inquisition, and to subjugate women, but we do not see them, keeping holy the Lord's day, or end usery or stop lust, which are part of the big 10! Homosexuality didn't even make God's big 10, it was considered unclean, by Jewish standards is all that the Bible says. Remember, these were also people who put their children to death for disobedience and stoned adulters! There would be a lot of dead people nowadays if these "godly?" laws were enforced.
 
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Can you tell me if there was a differentiation between sin? From what I understand that without grace you won't see paradise, is homosexuality a sin that can never be forgiven?

no

but it requires repentance to be forgiven of sin... for some that is a daily struggle and activity, depending on their personal cross/sin.
 
The bible has been used to defend slavery, justify the Inquisition, and to subjugate women, but we do not see them, keeping holy the Lord's day, or end usery or stop lust, which are part of the big 10! Homosexuality didn't even make God's big 10, it was considered unclean, by Jewish standards is all that the Bible says. Remember, these were also people who put their children to death for disobedience and stoned adulters! There would be a lot of dead people nowadays if these "godly?" laws were enforced.

You betta hush, truth! They don't hear you. Christ is about 10, 000 light years away from them. Everybody talking 'bout heaven ain't going there.
 
no

but it requires repentance to be forgiven of sin... for some that is a daily struggle and activity, depending on their personal cross/sin.

And this from a heathen who has used racial epithets, hatespeech, and curses....why don't you talk about something you do know about...like whoring.
 
The Law of God

God’s moral law clearly condemns homosexuality of any kind: “You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.... If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them” (Lev. 18:22, 20:13). Apologists for homosexuality try to circumvent the clear, unambiguous statements of God’s law with blatant Scripture-twisting and excuse-making arguments.

Some argue that the law of God does condemn homosexuality; they teach that God’s law is just a human record of ancient Jewish custom and prejudice. These people deny the Mosaic authorship of the law and are ethical relativists. Their argument must be rejected because Christ and the apostles accepted the divine authorship, infallibility and absolute authority of the Old Testament (Mt. 22:39-40; Jn. 10:35; 2 Tim. 3:16-17). If you reject God’s law by saying it is only the purely human ideas of ancient Jewry, then you cannot claim Christ as your Savior. You must believe either that Jesus was mistaken in His view of God’s law or that He was a liar. Be forewarned: Jesus Christ is God (Jn. 1:1, 8:58-59); He cannot be mistaken or lie (Num. 23:19).

Others teach that the laws condemning homosexuality were meant only for the nation of Israel. The Old Testament laws passed away with the coming of Jesus Christ. This view is popular among those who claim to be “evangelical homosexuals.” This view is totally unbiblical. When the New testament says that Christians are dead to the law, it means that Christ has fulfilled the law (the covenant of works) for the believer, and removed the curse of the law through His sacrificial death. Christians who are united to Jesus Christ in His perfect sinless life and His sacrificial death are raised with Christ and enabled by His Spirit to live unto God. Paul says that “the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good” (Rom. 7:12). Christ did not get rid of the moral law. He obeyed it perfectly for the believer. He died to remove the guilt of sin and He sends the Holy Spirit so believers have the power to obey God’s law. If Christ did away with the law in the sense that homosexual apologists assert, then there would be no need for Him to die, for if there is no law, there is no sin and guilt. The only laws which are no longer binding are laws specifically tied to the land of Israel (e.g., the jubilee) and the ceremonial laws. The ceremonial laws pointed to Jesus Christ and His work through types and figures. God’s moral law and the civil case laws based on the moral law are still in force. God’s law is based on His nature and character; therefore, it is absolute, unchanging and eternal.

It is obvious that the prohibitions against homosexuality have nothing to do with the sacrificial system; they clearly are not ceremonial in nature. Furthermore, if the laws against homosexuality were only meant for the nation of Israel, then why is homosexuality condemned in Sodom, over four hundred years before the nation of Israel existed: “as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh [homosexuality], are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire” (Jude 7)? Although Sodom was generally characterized by wickedness, Genesis 19 presents homosexuality as the last stage of debauchery. The men of Sodom desired homosexual relations with Lot’s guests and were willing to rape them if necessary. God wrought total destruction upon Sodom. Sodom was not destroyed because the inhabitants were inhospitable, as some claim. Just being inhospitable would not explain such a total judgment by God. God utterly destroyed the city; only Lot and his family were spared.

Some homosexual apologists argue that God’s law only condemns male cultic prostitution. They argue that modern homosexuality has nothing to do with the idolatrous, pagan homosexuality practiced in ancient times. God does clearly condemn male prostitution and the cultic fertility rites associated with it; Deuteronomy 23:17-18 does apply to cultic prostitution. But Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 do not mention cultic prostitution at all. “If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them” (Lev. 20:13).

The attempt to consolidate all the prohibitions against homosexuality into only one which deals with ancient cultic prostitution reveals an obvious pro-homosexual bias by these interpreters. They are forcing the biblical text into a pro-homosexual mold. They are being dishonest with the clear intent of God’s Word. They are reading their own pro-homosexual presuppositions into God’s law. It is illegitimate to condense three distinct prohibitions (Lev. 18:22, 20:13; Dt. 23:17-18) into one. Pro-homosexual interpreters know this but do not care, because they are not interested in the truth; they are only interested in justifying their wicked, perverted behavior. Furthermore, their interpretation could be used to justify having sexual intercourse with sheep and goats, because bestiality was also part of ancient cultic fertility rites. Don’t be deceived. God is against homosexuality in all its forms, both cultic as well as personal.

The arguments in favor of homosexuality are nothing more than pitiful excuses for a behavior that God hates and will clearly judge. “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Cor. 6:9-10). Homosexuality was condemned by God, centuries before the giving of the law (e.g., Gen. 19). It is explicitly condemned by God’s law (Lev. 18:22, 20:13). As will be shown, it is also clearly condemned in the New Testament by the Apostle Paul.

So I conclude that God requires sinners to repent and believe- no matter the sin. ~ Ice dancer
 
And this from a heathen who has used racial epithets, hatespeech, and curses....why don't you talk about something you do know about...like whoring.

WOW!!
That was real christian of you.
Now you're a lying, racist, hypocrite.
sucks to be you
 
I get the feeling poet is having a sissy fit? Must be its achy back from sporting that mattress all over Texas every night looking for action~

I love the way that you recycle your old jokes, nobody could ever accuse new of trying out new material. It is good to see that your old pal has been banned, not before time, let's hope it is forever. Ding dong the bitch is banned!!
 
Can you tell me if there was a differentiation between sin? From what I understand that without grace you won't see paradise, is homosexuality a sin that can never be forgiven?

first, being a homosexual is not a sin, engaging in homosexual relations is.........second, the only sin I can recall the Bible describing as unforgivable is an intentional refusal to believe in God.........
 
They think "born, again" means a get out of jail free card...well, some do, others think that you still have to workon it, depends on what sect you are referring to.

accepting Christ as savior is a "get out of hell free" card......
 
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Homosexuality didn't even make God's big 10, it was considered unclean, by Jewish standards is all that the Bible says.

true if you rest your case on a 17th Century English translation of a Latin translation of a Greek translation of the original Hebrew........if you look at the original Hebrew, it is NOT all the Bible says........

the OP article was correct in saying that to'ebah is the word used to describe homosexual relations.....that word is used to describe only 5 (not 10) activities in the Bible.....the others are incest, bestiality, idolatry and human sacrifice........
 
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