Are gays "born gay"?

Southern Man said:
They are linked in post 42.
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And that op-ed was to prove marriage is a privilege not a right? I'm not reading the entire thread, so I'm probably not following (and yes, I get the religious angle, that's not my question, to you). Anyway, was that an accurate guess?
 
Said1 said:
And that op-ed was to prove marriage is a privilege? I'm not reading the entire thread, so I'm probably not following. Anyway, was that an accurate guess?
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The "op-ed" was a summation from a government clerk on the secular state-sponsored contractual basis of marriage. So far no one has argued that this was not an accurate description.
 
Southern Man said:
The "op-ed" was a summation from a government clerk on the secular state-sponsored contractual basis of marriage. So far no one has argued that this was not an accurate description.
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I didn't ask you what an article, largley consisting of someone paraphrasing the words of clerk, was about. I asked you if it was in defense of this comment
Sothern Man said:
Marriage is not a right, but a privledge.
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I think that Gonzo guy asked 'Says who" after the above quoted post, then you posted the commentary. In any case, a simple yes or no would suffice. Geez.
 
Thorn said:
This isn't my specific area, but as with other reports of biological research some findings do make their way into the pile. Off the top of my head, here are two findings of note:

Some years ago it was learned that the medial preoptic area in the brains of gay men (an area well established as being involved in sexual behavior) was more similar to that in the brains of heterosexual adult females than the same nucleus in straight males.

More recently, a link was found between the number of boys born consecutively to a mother and the incidence of homosexuality among the youngest. Nothing specific can be derived from a correlational study but it can point the way for future research. In this case, the hypothesis derived was that the consecutive births of males (uninterrupted by female births) somehow changed the mother's ability to provide an appropriate hormonal environment for subsequent male offspring. To broaden this study, it would be necessary to conduct an extensive longitudinal study among gay males and their parents. Ultimately it might be possible to identify a marker, not only among large families, but during gestation to see if a hormonal balance exists and what effect, if any, it might have on gender identification/sexual preference among the offspring.
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:whome:

So did he ever respond to this?
 
DigitalDave said:
:whome:

So did he ever respond to this?
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DigitalDave said:
:whome:

So did he ever respond to this?
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Sorry 'bout that. ( ;) to Said1) I got sidetracked by Beefy and his girlfriend Mrs. Palmer.

1. With regards to the medial preoptic area, does it develop after birth or before?
2. With regards to the number of boys born consecutively to a mother and the incidence of homosexuality among the youngest. Couldn’t this be more simply explained by nurture? Big boys tend to pick on small ones, and as the pecking order gets established, the smallest would have to develop some other form of defense other than physical force. It seems that hanging onto mum’s skirt and would work, but the boy would then learn to bake cookies and arrange flowers instead of rumbling in the mud.
 
Southern Man said:
Sorry 'bout that. ( ;) to Said1) I got sidetracked by Beefy and his girlfriend Mrs. Palmer.

1. With regards to the medial preoptic area, does it develop after birth or before?
2. With regards to the number of boys born consecutively to a mother and the incidence of homosexuality among the youngest. Couldn’t this be more simply explained by nurture? Big boys tend to pick on small ones, and as the pecking order gets established, the smallest would have to develop some other form of defense other than physical force. It seems that hanging onto mum’s skirt and would work, but the boy would then learn to bake cookies and arrange flowers instead of rumbling in the mud.
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1. The MPO is a hardwired part of the brain. It is present at birth.

2. The tests involved an assay of testosterone during gestation. Your speculation is nothing more than that; an elaborate hypothetical scenario with no empirical basis. Obviously you've never been friends with a gay man. :)
 
Thorn said:
1. The MPO is a hardwired part of the brain. It is present at birth.

2. The tests involved an assay of testosterone during gestation. Your speculation is nothing more than that; an elaborate hypothetical scenario with no empirical basis. Obviously you've never been friends with a gay man. :)
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I would like to see more proof of both before I comment further.
 
Southern Man said:
I would like to see more proof of both before I comment further.
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Look it up. I do brain research for a living; one of my former colleagues, now at USC, does or did a lot of work on the MPO. Most of my info comes through scientific journal articles and it isn't possible to provide links. You might try the National Library of Medicine site.

The gestation/testosterone study was fairly recent; you should have no trouble finding it. Again try the NLM site.
 
Well..............thorn

all I can say is give poor gay guys HGH and testosteron ...bring em' up to speed on the chemical makeup...nothing else seems to work...psychology seems to be lacking positive results...maybe it is just a fetish..dunno...don't really care as far as voting for a leader...keep this stupid issue outta the debates for God sakes!
 
Southern Guys brain explodes!

I told You dude, Thorn is smarter than the rest of us put together in this area.

You have shown your homophobic butt big time in this thread.
God made many of them that way. What about that ?
 
Thorn is the real deal.

Personally I've never cared whether they "choose" it or are born that way, I can't see how it makes them less, or more, of a person either way. My thoughts lie in just treatment rather than in nature/nurture arguments that I don't believe have any relevance to rights.
 
Thorn said:
Look it up. I do brain research for a living; one of my former colleagues, now at USC, does or did a lot of work on the MPO. Most of my info comes through scientific journal articles and it isn't possible to provide links. You might try the National Library of Medicine site.

The gestation/testosterone study was fairly recent; you should have no trouble finding it. Again try the NLM site.
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If you can't provide backup to your own claim than The Southern Man will not do it for you.
 
uscitizen said:
Southern Guys brain explodes!

I told You dude, Thorn is smarter than the rest of us put together in this area.

You have shown your homophobic butt big time in this thread.
God made many of them that way. What about that ?
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The only thing exploding in Southern Man's world are targets he is shooting at or moguls he is skiing over.
 
Southern Man said:
The only thing exploding in Southern Man's world are targets he is shooting at or moguls he is skiing over.
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... and any credibility he might want to maintain. You mean you are going to deny Thorn's argument simply because you don't want to look it up? Sorry dude, you're in denial.
 
The medial preoptic area/ anterior hypothalamus (MPOA/AH), a region known to be
critical for the expression of masculine sexual behavior in most mammalian species (7), is
clearly one region to consider. The MPOA/AH comprises a steroid sensitive brain region that
contains high concentrations of androgen and estrogen receptors (8). Conversion of testosterone
to estradiol by cytochrome P450 aromatase within the MPOA/AH is an important part of the
mechanism by which androgens facilitate male sexual behaviors (9). Higher concentrations of
aromatase have been measured in the MPOA/AH of female-oriented rams than of male-oriented
4
rams (10). Within the MPOA/AH of several species, including humans, sexually dimorphic cell
groups have been identified that are significantly larger in males than in females (11). In rats,
Gorski et al. (12;13) identified a sexually dimorphic nucleus in the preoptic area (SDN-POA).
The SDN-POA has been associated with two distinct aspects of male sexual behavior, male
copulatory motor patterns (7) and sexual partner preference (14;15). In male rats treated
perinatally with the aromatase inhibitor ATD (1,4,6-androstatriene-3, 17-dione), SDN volume
correlates positively with male-typical sexual behavior and female-directed partner preference
(16). The third interstitial nucleus of the anterior hypothalamus (INAH3) in humans, which
exhibits positional and cytoarchitectonic similarities to the SDN-POA of the rat (17), has been
found to be significantly larger in heterosexual men than in homosexual men and women (18)
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http://sno.syr.edu/docs/RoselliEndocrin2003.pdf

There, now you've got a study that shows it..
 
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