At What Point?

[Truck Fump / h1b]

No but Luther did lead people away from the truth. The solas are not biblical. What happened with the reformation is everything "Catholic" was deemed "unbiblical" and was therefore rejected.

good.

all that was good thing.

there was some fucked up shit in the catholic church.

you yourself said things have changed.

BECAUSE OF PRESSURE FROM THE VARIOUS REFORMATIONS, Dufus.

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

Religion is authoritarian. Look at the Christians rushing to worship Trump.

trump has the best policies.

trump supporters are actually very thoughtful.

globalism is harmful on many levels.

that's just the discussion you don't want to happen, so you name call.

this is why you're losing.

 

[Hume]

trump has the best policies.

trump supporters are actually very thoughtful.

globalism is harmful on many levels.

that's just the discussion you don't want to happen, so you name call.

this is why you're losing.

uh....yeah.....sure......

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

uh....yeah.....sure......

You're pretty clueless for a famous philosopher.

 

[Hume]

You're pretty clueless for a famous philosopher.

You don't know grade school grammar.

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

You don't know grade school grammar.

You're a mute imbecile with no actual argument.

 

[Hume]

You're a mute imbecile with no actual argument.

And you are gone.

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

And you are gone.

Here I am.

 

[Cypress]

I never claimed Luther was wrong, in fact I expli

The reformation based on a perversion.

And yes practices have changed over the centuries in the church. Beliefs haven't. Luther led people astray and as I said Matt 18:6 will get it all sorted out.

Look, I've never been a Protestant and have no plans to become one. But I don't see any perversion in basic Lutheran theology.

Sola scriptura and sola fiede seem like a reasonable belief to come to, especially based on a reading of Paul's epistles.

Some of the seven sacred sacraments just have no basis in the bible, and there is a certain rationality in Protestantism's rejection of mythical practices like transmutation of the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ.

 

[Kafka]

trump has the best policies.

Trump doesn't have policies because policies require actual knowledge of governance. Trump doesn't even know the basics of the Constitution. nor does he CARE about policies. His "policy" is simple: "TRUMP UBER ALLES". That's it.

trump supporters are actually very thoughtful.

No they aren't. They're good people but uneducated and easily led by a "strongman". It's a tale as old as time.

globalism is harmful on many levels.

Yes and no. Primarily because YOU SUPPORT IT EVERY SINGLE DAY. You would scream bloody murder if you had to pay an American to make your computer and suddenly you couldn't afford it.

 

[Kafka]

Look, I've never been a Protestant and have no plans to become one. But I don't see any perversion in basic Lutheran theology.

Sola scriptura and sola fiede seem like a reasonable belief to come to, especially based on a reading of Paul's epistles.

Some of the seven sacred sacraments just have no basis in the bible, and there is a certain rationality in Protestantism's rejection of mythical practices like transmutation of the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ.

But to a Catholic in the 15th century it most assuredly would be a perversion. Luther didn't just displace all those mystical sacrements, he fundamentally changed how salvation is achieved. Justification by Faith vs Justification by Works. Suddenly piety and even basic good behavior meant nothing. Whether one believed became the most important.

For a group of people for whom belief + works + sacramental ritual = salvation it would AMAZINGLY perverse to upend soteriology.

Thankfully there's no way to tell whether one soteriology is superior to another (because, well, you know....) so all the variants can co-exist. Now that all the bloodshed is behind the faiths they can act nice.

 

[Yakuda]

good.

all that was good thing.

there was some fucked up shit in the catholic church.

you yourself said things have changed.

BECAUSE OF PRESSURE FROM THE VARIOUS REFORMATIONS, Dufus.

No it wasnt all good. There are few if any non Catholic Christian churches that believe Jesus is actually present in the Eucharist they consume. Jesus was clear in Scripture that unless youngest his body and drink his blood you have no life in you. You have to ignore a lot of important stuff in Scripture to be a protestant.

 

[Yakuda]

Look, I've never been a Protestant and have no plans to become one. But I don't see any perversion in basic Lutheran theology.

Sola scriptura and sola fiede seem like a reasonable belief to come to, especially based on a reading of Paul's epistles.

Some of the seven sacred sacraments just have no basis in the bible, and there is a certain rationality in Protestantism's rejection of mythical practices like transmutation of the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ.

Cite where paul teaches either.

Every one of them does. Jesus is shockingly clear if you don't eat my flesh or drink my blood you have no life in you. Paul reiterates this as does Ignatius of Antioch a disciple of Johns. You have to do a lot of ignoring it be a protestant.

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

No it wasnt all good. There are few if any non Catholic Christian churches that believe Jesus is actually present in the Eucharist they consume. Jesus was clear in Scripture that unless youngest his body and drink his blood you have no life in you. You have to ignore a lot of important stuff in Scripture to be a protestant.

yes.

this fits in with my theory of how masons like to "keep religion crazy" to sew division and avoid the actuallly important discussion of what the moral teachings are.

the moral teachings are the fruits of religion. the persecutory worldly power structure is a flaw.

 

[Yakuda]

yes.

this fits in with my theory of how masons like to "keep religion crazy" to sew division and avoid the actuallly important discussion of what the moral teachings are.

the moral teachings are the fruits of religion. the persecutory worldly power structure is a flaw.

The Catholic church didn't sow division. I don't know how much more clear Jesus could have been, unless you eat (the greek word used for eat was gnaw) my flesh and drink my blood you have no life in you.

Ive asked thousands of protestants to tell me what Words Jesus would.hsve used if he actually meant to say we should eat his flesh and drink his blood. I'm still waiting for answers

 

[Cypress]

Cite where paul teaches either.

Every one of them does. Jesus is shockingly clear if you don't eat my flesh or drink my blood you have no life in you. Paul reiterates this as does Ignatius of Antioch a disciple of Johns. You have to do a lot of ignoring it be a protestant.

I don't have to cite the exact passages. Anyone who took an introductory class on religion, or read an article or two about Saint Paul, knows that his close reading of Paul's epistles led him to believe in the doctrine of faith by justification alone.

It doesn't require internet research and citation because this doctrine it is so widely known and so well known to anyone even modestly knowledgeable about Christian history and theology, it can be discussed without Googling for citations.

That's just what Paul thought. It's not up to me to say whether or not Paul had access to truths the Roman Catholic church missed, or which one was perverted and which one was not. That's not the right question to me.

 

[Into the Night]

^^^

Anyone besides me believe that Sybil will be pushing a grocery cart and living in a refrigerator box in a few years?

You don't already??

 

[Into the Night]

That's a good point. I don't think there are many genuine christians or impartial atheists here.

JPP seems to be renowned for it's rival teams of fake christian poseurs and anti-christian zealots.

You don't get to speak for God, Sybil.

 

[Into the Night]

You obviously missed or ignored what I said was admirable about Protestantism in principle.

Denying your own post won't work, Sybil.

 

[Into the Night]

A point that most Christian denominations in the US agree upon. Notice that it’s the MAGAts/Christian Nationalists/White Supremacists who are arguing differently. Why?

IMO, because they take a very hard and skewed view of the Bible. They cherry-pick what they like and disregard what they dislike. During the debates on gay marriage, it was these people arguing about how homosexuality is a sin punishable by death while they were munching on their pork rinds and Shrimp Po’boy sandwiches.

Pivot fallacy. MAGA isn't a person, Sybil.