At What Point?

Cypress said:
I don't think it's up to atheists, agnostics or Buddhists to insist that Christians how christians experience their religion.

The bible was not written by God. It was written by men, who even if they were divinely inspired, have human fallibility and only had access to the language and syntax available to bronze and iron age people.

The second most important Christian after Paul, Augustine, held that biblical interpretation couldn't always be literal, and had to be generally measured against the known facts of the natural world.


I understand there is a vested interest among some atheists to insist all Christians have to be held to account to read the language of the bible strictly literally, because then it's easy to frame atheists as the smart ones and Christians universally as the idiots.
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This agnostic/atheist doesn’t insist they be held to any literal interpretation. Unless, of course, they wish to do so on issues such as creation, the Ark, the resurrection and other Jesus miracles. Then, this agnostic/atheist will hold them accountable for all text instead of letting them cherry pick.
PostmodernProphet said:
only an idiot argues a religion is polytheistic because it contains a commandment to NOT be polytheistic.......,
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A thinking person would ask why would he tell them to not be polytheist if they weren’t already. But, “thinking person” excludes you.
 
domer76 said:
A thinking person would ask why would he tell them to not be polytheist if they weren’t already. But, “thinking person” excludes you.
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seriously....tell me you aren't this fucking stupid....you are saying "this religion must be polytheistic, because they have to teach monotheism".....let's just cut to "the religion teaches monotheism".......or are you too dense to realize that.......
 
Cypress said:
I don't think it's up to atheists, agnostics or Buddhists to insist that Christians how christians experience their religion.
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I disagree. Unless the religion is set up to NOT make any sense it shouldn't matter who is discussing it. I have never been one of those who thinks you have to BELIEVE first before you can "understand" the Bible. (Also, I spent >30 years as a believing Christian, so I get a pass).

Cypress said:
The bible was not written by God. It was written by men, who even if they were divinely inspired, have human fallibility and only had access to the language and syntax available to bronze and iron age people.
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That's the key. It is so manifestly made up by humans (even down to the glaring mismatches, errors, and wildly inexplicable stuff) which is PRECISELY the point.

It is through the magic of exegesis that the true believers are able to square the circle.


Cypress said:
The second most important Christian after Paul, Augustine, held that biblical interpretation couldn't always be literal, and had to be generally measured against the known facts of the natural world.
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And I have no problem with the Catholic approach to treating the Bible in many ways as metaphorical or allegorical while still maintaining some theological "truth". But, again, the problems most societies have with religion is when the fundamentalists try to drag everyone back to the stone age. That's how you get Afghanistan.

But the non-fundamentalists also give cover to the fundamentalists. Theirs is a belief that is a "degree" of the same belief the fundamentalists have. For them God exists as well, he's just not as advertised in the holy writ. For the Fundamentalists he is exactly as advertised. So the non-fundamentalists really can't tell the fundamentalists they are "wrong", just that they have a different view of the same thing they believe.

Cypress said:
I understand there is a vested interest among some atheists to insist all Christians have to be held to account to read the language of the bible strictly literally
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Only those sects which insist on doing so and dragging education back to the stone age. I'm A-OK with fundamentalists having their meetings and worshiping as they wish. But they need to remember: not everyone else has to believe the same way.

Again, looking at Afghanistan as a real-world laboratory for this kind of thinking. And realizing it could very well become our daily lives if we lose attention. Sure, it is far less likely, but not impossible.


Cypress said:
, because then it's easy to frame atheists as the smart ones and Christians universally as the idiots.
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I don't know about that. You seem to have a really bad experience with atheists and you always characterize them in the most negative light. So I can't speak to your experience, but it sounds bad. I am sorry you have met only bad atheists in your world.
 
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Obtenebrator said:
I disagree. Unless the religion is set up to NOT make any sense it shouldn't matter who is discussing it. I have never been one of those who thinks you have to BELIEVE first before you can "understand" the Bible. (Also, I spent >30 years as a believing Christian, so I get a pass).



That's the key. It is so manifestly made up by humans (even down to the glaring mismatches, errors, and wildly inexplicable stuff) which is PRECISELY the point.

It is through the magic of exegesis that the true believers are able to square the circle.




And I have no problem with the Catholic approach to treating the Bible in many ways as metaphorical or allegorical while still maintaining some theological "truth". But, again, the problems most societies have with religion is when the fundamentalists try to drag everyone back to the stone age. That's how you get Afghanistan.

But the non-fundamentalists also give cover to the fundamentalists. Theirs is a belief that is a "degree" of the same belief the fundamentalists have. For them God exists as well, he's just not as advertised in the holy writ. For the Fundamentalists he is exactly as advertised. So the non-fundamentalists really can't tell the fundamentalists they are "wrong", just that they have a different view of the same thing they believe.



Only those sects which insist on doing so and dragging education back to the stone age. I'm A-OK with fundamentalists having their meetings and worshiping as they wish. But they need to remember: not everyone else has to believe the same way.

Again, looking at Afghanistan as a real-world laboratory for this kind of thinking. And realizing it could very well become our daily lives if we lose attention. Sure, it is far less likely, but not impossible.




I don't know about that. You seem to have a really bad experience with atheists and you always characterize them in the most negative light. So I can't speak to your experience, but it sounds bad. I am sorry you have met only bad atheists in your world.
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catholics have Been the most murderous in defense of their doctrines.

their approach sucks cock if you ask me.

they're as totalitarian as atheists. maybe that's why atheists prefer Catholics.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
I've been posting here since 2009......not a single atheist capable of carrying on an argument so far......you all have nothing unless you pull your cites from atheist sources full of your own sick fantasies.......
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Sick fantasies? You mean like this?

"And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:
Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father." (Gen 19)
 
Obtenebrator said:
Sick fantasies? You mean like this?

"And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:
Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father." (Gen 19)
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everyone knows only christians from Alabama do this sort of thing.

my preconceived notion means you're a liar.
 
Blackwater Lunchbreak said:
everyone knows only christians from Alabama do this sort of thing.

my preconceived notion means you're a liar.
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You never read the Bible? Huh. This story is in GENESIS...literally the first book. If you couldn't make it through the first book of the Bible then I think we can safely ignore any of your commentary. :)
 
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