At What Point?

[Ross Dolan]

So...as I understand it from reading this thread, some (perhaps many of) the people who blindly guess there is a GOD...and that the GOD caused the Bible to be written...now think that the GOD fucked up by not being clear enough to convince everyone (who blindly guesses that a GOD exists and caused the Bible to be written) to agree on what is written.

Why bother to blindly guess that a GOD exists then? Why not blindly guess that there are no gods...like so many other people do?

Or, EVEN BETTER, simply acknowledge that you do not know if a GOD or gods exist...and refuse to make a blind guess.

 

[Kafka]

Read post # 539

Oh, I definitely agree that the Jesus of the various gospels does run afoul of the proper procedures. But in Matthew he clearly states not one jot or tittle of the law shall pass before fulfilment. He wasn't there to take down the laws.

Of course the rational mind says "Oh, the author of Matthew just made that bit up to serve his agenda in writing the Gospel from his perspective and the others did likewise".

The most likely is the stories are made up largely. Maybe based on a kernel of some truth but no one really knew the details and establishing a belief system it is often necessary to cast the stories in the light that forwards that agenda.

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

no, he simply taught that compliance with the law, being unobtainable by humankind, is not sufficient to atone.....he didn't reinterpret, he pointed out that the Pharisees and Sadducees had MIS-interpreted it......the same misinterpretation that atheists apply today......

no. with some of the stuff its not even necessary.

quit trying to Jew up Christianity please.

Christ is King.

 

[Cypress]

But in Matthew he clearly states not one jot or tittle of the law shall pass before fulfilment. He wasn't there to take down the laws.

It certainly makes Matt 5:17-18 somewhat murky: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

But you can't just cherry pick that one sentence and think your homework is done.

You have to read the entire sermon on the Mount, and have the knowledge to be able to place Jesus' reinterpretation of the law against the expectations the Sadducees, Pharisees, and Essenes had for conforming to the laws of Torah.

One of the most famous and well known principles of the epistles of Paul is that for the gentiles, salvation is by grace alone. The laws of Torah no longer apply. Otherwise, the gentiles would have to get circumcised, eat kosher, practice ritual purity, and observe the laws of Deuteronomy. The NT is the final revelation which supersedes Torah.

 

[Kafka]

But you can't just cherry pick that one sentence and think your homework is done.

But that's the point. Clearly Jesus in SOME cases takes on the law full-force, and in others he clearly claims he has NOT come to overturn the law.

One of the most famous and well known principles of the epistles of Paul is that for the gentiles, salvation is by grace alone. The laws of Torah no longer apply.

And most assuredly Paul got push-back on that. He disagreed strongly with the Jerusalem Christians who felt it should not be opened up to Gentiles. That the Laws still held.

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

But that's the point. Clearly Jesus in SOME cases takes on the law full-force, and in others he clearly claims he has NOT come to overturn the law.





And most assuredly Paul got push-back on that. He disagreed strongly with the Jerusalem Christians who felt it should not be opened up to Gentiles. That the Laws still held.

what about when he says the whole of the law is the golden rule?

is that a radical reinterpreatation.

when Jesus says law he means something totally different.



this is something unique and significant, and special about Christianity.

 

[Hume]

Religious people are terrified that every bit of their myth might not be factually true. Fun to watch.

 

[Kafka]

what about when he says the whole of the law is the golden rule?

is that a radical reinterpreatation.

when Jesus says law he means something totally different.



this is something unique and significant, and special about Christianity.

sorry Jew boy.

"Jew boy"?

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

"Jew boy"?

I edited that out.

that was in poor taste.

I love Jew boys. some of them are very clean and articulate.

 

[Kafka]

I edited that out.

that was in poor taste.

Agreed.

I love Jew boys. some of them are very clean and articulate.

That's weird.

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

Agreed.


That's weird.

are you suprised that dirty Jews know what soap is?

 

[Cypress]

..he didn't reinterpret, he pointed out that the Pharisees and Sadducees had MIS-interpreted it......

That's saying the same thing I did, in just a different way.

Either way, the end result is the same: Jesus reimagined the laws of Torah in a different way than conventional Pharisaic or Sadducaic Jews did in the first century.

 

[Cypress]

The Christians can thank their god for evolution, can’t they?

Certainly all religion, all science, all art, all technology, has advanced since the late Bronze Age.

American fundamentalists seem to have evolved the least because they cling to an indefensible principle of biblical literalism and inerrancy.

 

[Cypress]

are you suprised that dirty Jews know what soap is?

You're reprehensible.

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

You're reprehensible.

oh jesus.

get a sense of humor, Mr. prissy pants.

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

Certainly all religion, all science, all art, all technology, has advanced since the late Bronze Age.

American fundamentalists seem to have evolved the least because they cling to an indefensible principle of biblical literalism and inerrancy.

again, which religion teaches that their texts are NOT the word of God?

you're just making shit up.

 

[Kafka]

are you suprised that dirty Jews know what soap is?

OK. So nothing to see here but another Nazi. Thanks.

 

[Into the Night]

Oh great, more commentary from the cheap seats. Thanks

You actually think you can sell tickets to your inanity??

 

[Kafka]

Certainly all religion, all science, all art, all technology, has advanced since the late Bronze Age.

American fundamentalists seem to have evolved the least because they cling to an indefensible principle of biblical literalism and inerrancy.

But fundamentalists, if you think about it, are the only ones who understand that their "ULTIMATE TRUTH" doesn't ever change. If it did it wouldn't be of God.

Don't get me wrong: I carry no water for Fundies but in reality if God is real He isn't open to change to match the "feelings" of the society that worships Him. That's just bad theology.

Why would God find homosexuality to be an abomination in Year X but be OK with homosexuality in Year X+3000? What changed? (Hint: PEOPLE changed their views of homosexuals. God was written into the story to be nice like the people were becoming. Isn't it strange that when God, the creator of all things, changes He almost always becomes more accepting of modern philosophies?

 

[Into the Night]

Jesus was a Jew, Paul was the founder of Christianity. Christian, and particularly Protestant theology is based on Paul, the patristic fathers, and others who interpreted what it meant to be a Christian.

Further, any close reading of the Sermon on the Mount clearly indicates Jesus was radical reinterpreter to the laws of Torah.

Christianity is the acceptance of the gospel of Jesus Christ, Sybil. Paul is not Jesus Christ.
Do you actually think the Torah is above Jesus Christ or God???