atheists go to heaven: the Pope

[Gotcha68]

Yet atheists like you claim to know all about it. Funny how you think you can understand something that has to be viewed in a theological manner by looking at it in a secular one.

Actually I don't claim to know anything nearly as much as believers claim they have the answers. They claim to know a god exists though they have never seen it, heard it, or felt it...haven't even tasted it. You all act as if your FAITH and BELIEF that something IS is all that is needed and somehow that trumps (hee hee) those of us who merely ask for evidence before we fall in line.

Believe what you want but without evidence you're merely wishful thinking.

 

[Stretch]

I "won't" talk to your God because there has never been evidence it existed beyond a book written by men and beyond the threats of eternal violence if you don't believe in it by its followers.

You need to work on your sales pitch if you want to convince anyone of your mental issues aka faith in an invisible being.

Sales? Over and over I say, take it or leave it, make your own choice, do what you want, etc.
If someone begins a thread on religious matters, expect to see religious discussions with varying statements of belief.
If you have absolutely no belief in God or interest in God why come in and do nothing but complain about those who do?
So, again for the umpteenth time, it's not my place to "convince" anyone of anything. The Lord did not saddle believers with that job. All believers can do is plant the seed (Word)...it's up to the Holy Spirit to "convince" within the individual's heart and for the Lord to harvest.

 

[Stretch]

Actually I don't claim to know anything nearly as much as believers claim they have the answers. They claim to know a god exists though they have never seen it, heard it, or felt it...haven't even tasted it. You all act as if your FAITH and BELIEF that something IS is all that is needed and somehow that trumps (hee hee) those of us who merely ask for evidence before we fall in line.

Believe what you want but without evidence you're merely wishful thinking.

We have to come to God by faith. When we believe, then we will see. By human standards we do it the opposite way...we like to say "Well, I'll believe it when I see it".

But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame." For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
Romans 10:8-13

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

 

[CFM]

Actually I don't claim to know anything nearly as much as believers claim they have the answers. They claim to know a god exists though they have never seen it, heard it, or felt it...haven't even tasted it. You all act as if your FAITH and BELIEF that something IS is all that is needed and somehow that trumps (hee hee) those of us who merely ask for evidence before we fall in line.

Believe what you want but without evidence you're merely wishful thinking.

I've asked for certain types of evidence for me to, as you say, fall in line with evolution. NONE of you adhering to that have been able to provide it yet still expect people to believe it.

Did you see the big bang you claim happened? Can you provide the actual photograph of my family member from 20,000 generations ago you claim I evolved from? Did you see any of what you say supports what you believe happen with your own eyes? In other words, you haven't seen it, felt it, tasted it, etc. yet you want people to believe what you say.

 

[CFM]

Since the Pope, someone that should know what the book on which he claims his religious beliefs are based, won't tell the kid the truth, I will. His atheist daddy is in Hell.

Perhaps the Pope should read what the Bible he ignores says about lying.

In the end, the Pope will get to meet this boy's daddy and it won't be in Heaven.

 

[CFM]

We have to come to God by faith. When we believe, then we will see. By human standards we do it the opposite way...we like to say "Well, I'll believe it when I see it".

But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame." For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
Romans 10:8-13

Ever noticed how the atheists claim that before "I fall in line" I need this type of proof and that type of proof? Interesting how they expect you to fall in line with what they believe despite not being able to provide the type proof others would need for what they support.

 

[Stretch]

Ever noticed how the atheists claim that before "I fall in line" I need this type of proof and that type of proof? Interesting how they expect you to fall in line with what they believe despite not being able to provide the type proof others would need for what they support.

For those who believe, no proof is needed.
For those who do not, no proof will suffice.

 

[sear]

Thread: atheists go to heaven: the Pope

Eskimo: 'If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?'
Priest: 'No, not if you did not know.'
Eskimo: 'Then why did you tell me?'
Annie Dillard

 

[sear]

S #248
For those who believe, no proof is needed.
For those who do not, no proof will suffice.

For the skeptical, no proof is possible.
For the faithful, no proof is necessary. < based upon >
"To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible." - Thomas Aquinas

 

[CFM]

For those who believe, no proof is needed.
For those who do not, no proof will suffice.

Nothing will ever be good enough even if the type they requested was provided.

 

[sear]

"Nothing will ever be good enough even if the type they requested was provided." CM #251

A bit early in the day for that much moonshine. Don't ya think?

 

[Gotcha68]

I've asked for certain types of evidence for me to, as you say, fall in line with evolution. NONE of you adhering to that have been able to provide it yet still expect people to believe it.

Did you see the big bang you claim happened? Can you provide the actual photograph of my family member from 20,000 generations ago you claim I evolved from? Did you see any of what you say supports what you believe happen with your own eyes? In other words, you haven't seen it, felt it, tasted it, etc. yet you want people to believe what you say.

Do you not understand how science works? Geology. Biology. Astronomy. Physics and and and...? I suggest going to your local library and checking out a few books on various science subjects and educate yourself because the information is there.

Personally I don't care if we started with a big bang or whatever. We are here. However that happened has no interest to me because it happened billions of years ago and this is 2018. I'm more concerned with tomorrow than yest.

The fact that you are here proves that someone came before you that provided a path to your existence. We don't need photographs when your very DNA holds the answers.

As far as evolution goes, believe it or not, I don't care. Some things don't need you to believe in them to exist. They just are. If you can't muster up the critical thinking skills to accept evolution despite all the science supporting it then absolutely nothing at this point will convince you. You go ahead and believe God said "Be" and presto, magic. Whatever. It changes nothing about the fact that evolution is indeed a fact.

 

[Gotcha68]

Ever noticed how the atheists claim that before "I fall in line" I need this type of proof and that type of proof? Interesting how they expect you to fall in line with what they believe despite not being able to provide the type proof others would need for what they support.

What exactly is it atheists expect you to fall in line with? Remind me please because I don't recall making demands on anyone to believe in some thing or else.

 

[Sailor]

Do you not understand how science works? Geology. Biology. Astronomy. Physics and and and...? I suggest going to your local library and checking out a few books on various science subjects and educate yourself because the information is there.

Personally I don't care if we started with a big bang or whatever. We are here. However that happened has no interest to me because it happened billions of years ago and this is 2018. I'm more concerned with tomorrow than yest.

The fact that you are here proves that someone came before you that provided a path to your existence. We don't need photographs when your very DNA holds the answers.

As far as evolution goes, believe it or not, I don't care. Some things don't need you to believe in them to exist. They just are. If you can't muster up the critical thinking skills to accept evolution despite all the science supporting it then absolutely nothing at this point will convince you. You go ahead and believe God said "Be" and presto, magic. Whatever. It changes nothing about the fact that evolution is indeed a fact.

I like that.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

sadly it looks like Chrispy will never return and answer the questions I asked her..........I fear she has no balls.....

 

[Nordberg]

Ever noticed how the atheists claim that before "I fall in line" I need this type of proof and that type of proof? Interesting how they expect you to fall in line with what they believe despite not being able to provide the type proof others would need for what they support.

No, never noticed. There is no possible way that god will be proven. That is why it is a belief, only a belief, not steeped in evidence or fact. 2000 years of training children before they are mature enough to ward off the propagandizing. You guys are proud of your child cruelty. Scaring the shit out little kids who are not mentally equipped to fight it off.

There is no evidence. therefore your position should be atheist. It is the only only one that makes sense. It is commensurate with all the knowledge we have.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

There is no possible way that god will be proven.

not true.....on the day of your death you will have all the proof you never wanted........

 

[christiefan915]

so are you saying this thead is a lie?.....that atheists won't be going to heaven?.....or are you saying the pope is simply wrong but its okay because he wasn't being official......I understand its okay to be fallible if you aren't being official......

This is what I found on atheism.

Versions of a remark Pope Francis made about atheists and Catholics were misleadingly paraphrased.

...paraphrases of something Pope Francis said during a homily in Rome on 23 February 2017, as he was speaking those who identify as a Christian but don’t follow the tenets of their faith:

"But what is scandal? Scandal is saying one thing and doing another; it is a double life, a double life. A totally double life: ‘I am very Catholic, I always go to Mass, I belong to this association and that one; but my life is not Christian, I don’t pay my workers a just wage, I exploit people, I am dirty in my business, I launder money …’ A double life. And so many Christians are like this, and these people scandalize others. How many times have we heard — all of us, around the neighborhood and elsewhere — ‘but to be a Catholic like that, it’s better to be an atheist.’ It is that, scandal. You destroy. You beat down. And this happens every day, it’s enough to see the news on TV, or to read the papers. In the papers there are so many scandals, and there is also the great publicity of the scandals. And with the scandals there is destruction.”

This translation, provided by the Vatican Radio, makes it clear that the Pope didn’t directly say that it was better to be an atheist than a “bad” (or “greedy” or “hypocritical”) Catholic or Christian. Rather, the Pope was repeating a common phrase commenting on Catholics who conduct their lives in ways contrary to their faith.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pope-francis-bad-catholics/

 

[christiefan915]

More on atheism.

Although Pope Francis did make statements in 2013 that were widely received as atypically inclusive of nonbelievers, he did not completely discount the necessity for a belief in God.

In December 2014, an image of Pope Francis was circulated via social media, with a strike quote appended to it suggesting that the pontiff had said “It is not necessary to believe in God to be a good person”:

The quote was deemed plausible by many Facebook users (who subsequently shared it) due in part because Pope Francis has been both inclusive and non-judgmental in his commentary thus far regarding faith, morality, and good deeds. The heavily-circulated quote also read to many as a natural extension of what was widely viewed as partial acceptance of atheism by Pope Francis during a May 2013 homily: back then, Pope Francis’ words were interpreted by some to mean atheists could achieve redemption through good deeds without belief in God, while others inferred the comments merely referenced corporeal time on Earth and cooperation towards peace:

“The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone! And this Blood makes us children of God of the first class. We are created children in the likeness of God and the Blood of Christ has redeemed us all. And we all have a duty to do good. And this commandment for everyone to do good, I think, is a beautiful path towards peace. If we, each doing our own part, if we do good to others, if we meet there, doing good, and we go slowly, gently, little by little, we will make that culture of encounter: We need that so much. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: We will meet one another there.”


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Following Pope Francis’ homily, Fr. Thomas Rosica (a Vatican spokesperson who specializes in translating the Pope’s remarks for English-speaking Catholics and the media) issued a clarification stating the homily’s content was not intended to suggest belief in God was immaterial to salvation:

This means that all salvation comes from Christ, the Head, through the Church which is his body. Hence they cannot be saved who, knowing the Church as founded by Christ and necessary for salvation, would refuse to enter her or remain in her. At the same time, thanks to Christ and to his Church, those who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ and his Church but sincerely seek God and, moved by grace, try to do his will as it is known through the dictates of conscience can attain eternal salvation.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pope-francis-belief-in-god/

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