Beer Bellies Banned?

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Which court are you referring to - the European Court of Justice or the European Court of Human Rights?

Any UK law which breaches the European Convention on Human Rights can be struck down by our national courts since the Human Rights Act 1997. In fact in the EU each nation's Constitution is overridden by the Treaty of Rome.

Obviously the European Court of Human Rights, Charver. I am actually very well versed in British politics, much more than you're likely to see in any other random American.

I know the UK has that law, but the fact that people in your country have to appeal to it more than anyone else should indicate something, should it not? It's better, at least, to have the national courts and laws not set up to violate human rights in the first place.

 

[charver]

Obviously the European Court of Human Rights, Charver. I am actually very well versed in British politics, much more than you're likely to see in any other random American.

I know the UK has that law, but the fact that people in your country have to appeal to it more than anyone else should indicate something, should it not? It's better, at least, to have the national courts and laws not set up to violate human rights in the first place.

Not necessarily. It is quite possible that citizens of the UK have both the the legal knowledge and the financial means to take, specifically, human rights violations to a European Court. Many appeals are, frankly, frivolous and i would be more interested to know the figures on successful appeals.

Remember that the European Convention on Human Rights has nothing to do with the EU and is adopted by countries such as Turkey and Russia. Are Turkish and Russian courts doing a sterling job upholding the rights of the individual? The point is that even though states are signed up to the Convention their States either prevent appeals or ignore them.

Are human rights violated more in the UK than in equivalent European States? I don't think so.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Not necessarily. It is quite possible that citizens of the UK have both the the legal knowledge and the financial means to take, specifically, human rights violations to a European Court. Many appeals are, frankly, frivolous and i would be more interested to know the figures on successful appeals.

Remember that the European Convention on Human Rights has nothing to do with the EU and is adopted by countries such as Turkey and Russia. Are Turkish and Russian courts doing a sterling job upholding the rights of the individual? The point is that even though states are signed up to the Convention their States either prevent appeals or ignore them.

Are human rights violated more in the UK than in equivalent European States? I don't think so.

Who knows? They're certainly more violated than in France and Germany. Maybe you guys hold yourselves to the standard of Russia and Turkey. I really wouldn't care to do that, personally.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

The UK really could be falling apart, though, with the SNP being elected.

 

[charver]

Who knows? They're certainly more violated than in France and Germany. Maybe you guys hold yourselves to the standard of Russia and Turkey. I really wouldn't care to do that, personally.

The question of legal aid would be where i'd look. I know that the UK government will generously fund appeals to higher courts. I don't know about France and Germany et al.

Even if we had a constitution it would be a vague document allowing as much leeway for government as possible and would result in a massive number of challenges in our own and in European Courts.

What i could say was that despite our lack of a Constitution no UK government could have got away with half the strokes the US has pulled in violating human rights.

 

[Cancel7]

The question of legal aid would be where i'd look. I know that the UK government will generously fund appeals to higher courts. I don't know about France and Germany et al.

Even if we had a constitution it would be a vague document allowing as much leeway for government as possible and would result in a massive number of challenges in our own and in European Courts.

What i could say was that despite our lack of a Constitution no UK government could have got away with half the strokes the US has pulled in violating human rights.

What do you mean? Gitmo? Rendition? What is it that the citizens of UK would not accept, that sadly, Americans have accepted. I am curious.

 

[charver]

What do you mean? Gitmo? Rendition? What is it that the citizens of UK would not accept, that sadly, Americans have accepted. I am curious.

Don't get me wrong, our government will tacitly go along with it all, don't want to rock the boat and all that. We just couldn't impliment it.

Things like executing minors or the mentally ill wouldn't be acceptable though.

 

[Damocles]

If we'd had a written constitution someone would have banned it already.

Anyway, constitutions are far too overrated. If a government wants to override it they will.

You can have ours. Apparently we aren't using it anymore.

 

[Cancel7]

Don't get me wrong, our government will tacitly go along with it all, don't want to rock the boat and all that. We just couldn't impliment it.

Things like executing minors or the mentally ill wouldn't be acceptable though.

Ok. I was curious how people there are different than here. It seems that here we'll do anything to be "safe" including as you mention, executing minors. I don't know if that's universal or not.

 

[charver]

You can have ours. Apparently we aren't using it anymore.

Exactly, sir.

A Constitution is only as robust as those who are charged to uphold it and, unfortunately, they are all weasels.

 

[Cancel7]

You can have ours. Apparently we aren't using it anymore.

Yeah, really.

Which reminds me Damo, when your friend BB has me thrown into Gitmo, I hope you are going to send me chocolates.

 

[AnyOldIron II]

The UK really could be falling apart, though, with the SNP being elected.

I wouldn't worry too much. 75% of Scots don't want independence, because they realise how quickly Scotland would become a third world country. The population of Scotland is tiny, a couple of million, which is dwarfed by England's.

 

[Cancel7]

The UK really could be falling apart, though, with the SNP being elected.

I wouldn't worry too much. 75% of Scots don't want independence, because they realise how quickly Scotland would become a third world country. The population of Scotland is tiny, a couple of million, which is dwarfed by England's.

Huh, sounds like our South.

 

[AnyOldIron II]

Things like executing minors or the mentally ill wouldn't be acceptable though.

Yep, it's very poor form to execute kids and the mentally ill...

 

[AnyOldIron II]

Huh, sounds like our South.

Do they wear skirts and moan about battles that occurred many hundreds of years ago too?

 

[Damocles]

The courts ruled that it is unconstitutional to execute minors.

See Roper v. Simmons...

The Supreme Court voted 5 to 4 to strike down executions for any crime committed while under the age of 18.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

The question of legal aid would be where i'd look. I know that the UK government will generously fund appeals to higher courts. I don't know about France and Germany et al.

Even if we had a constitution it would be a vague document allowing as much leeway for government as possible and would result in a massive number of challenges in our own and in European Courts.

What i could say was that despite our lack of a Constitution no UK government could have got away with half the strokes the US has pulled in violating human rights.

Like what, Charver? Name one example?

 

[Cancel7]

The courts ruled that it is unconstitutional to execute minors.

See Roper v. Simmons...

The Supreme Court voted 5 to 4 to strike down executions for any crime committed while under the age of 18.

Yes Damo, and the dissenting opinion, written by Scalia?, one of those nuts, was that it was anti-American or some BS to be looking to foreign law to guide our own. All up in arms because someone had the nerve to point out that we are the only so-called civilized nation where it was legal to execute minors.

Four of them were against it. It's so French.

And maybe you are confident it will stand...I am not. Not with the nuts we are putting on the courts these days.

 

[charver]

The courts ruled that it is unconstitutional to execute minors.

See Roper v. Simmons...

The Supreme Court voted 5 to 4 to strike down executions for any crime committed while under the age of 18.

Maybe that Constitution thing has a use after all, or until the balance of the bench changes.

 

[Cancel7]

Huh, sounds like our South.

Do they wear skirts and moan about battles that occurred many hundreds of years ago too?

Oh, yes, they even have their own flag and song about the long ago battle. The skirts, they wear in doors though.

It's all very repressed.