Bernie thinks Medicare for all will reduce fraud

[Celticguy]

Oh come on, spare us the fear mongering. They will still be well paid. Perhaps if you fucking louts on the right actually gave a shit about people you'd feel differently.

No one is saying doctors and nurses should not be paid a ransom for their services.

BUT. Hospital mergers and acquisitions continuously inflates the cost of care for insurance providers by strong arming them into agreeing with larger payouts for routine services. Undeniable fact.

Without a UNIFIED front against this sort of graft we will NEVER control costs; until you fucking guys ADDRESS this part of the problem you will get nowhere closer to understanding what's going on in HC.

Not a fact at all.
Providers negotiate a favorable rate because the insurer (commercial or govt) requires their services for the people they promised to cover.
Supply and demand.
You can be as united as you please but there are a finite number of them irrespective of any way they merge.
The AMA has seen to that.

 

[Celticguy]

Imbecile, those are COSTS, not profits.

You're uneducated on HC.

Go elsewhere.

And those costs provide the profit for all those providers.
Now who doesnt understand healthcare ?

 

[Gonzomin]

That is why we don't want Medicare for everybody--it only increases the fraud.

You should do some homework. There is fraud in all healthcare. Pharm is one of the worst as recent history shows. Drug companies bribed doctors to prescribe very addictive opioids to increase profits. They made billions. Now states are suing them to pay for what they did.
Hard goods manufacturers have kept prices on medical appliances at ridiculous levels by lobbying and bribing legislators.
Nationalized medicine will give control and oversight. There is a chance we can slash fraud. Continuing as we have is foolish.

 

[Celticguy]

Nationalized medicine will give control and oversight. There is a chance we can slash fraud. Continuing as we have is foolish.

How will it change control/oversight?
Remember youve had Medicare/medicaid authority for generations and its dine nothing but feed the beast.

 

[Year Zero]

Not a fact at all.
Providers negotiate a favorable rate because the insurer (commercial or govt) requires their services for the people they promised to cover.
Supply and demand.
You can be as united as you please but there are a finite number of them irrespective of any way they merge.
The AMA has seen to that.

Wrong. You literally don't know what you're talking about. Mergers and acquisitions always INCREASE pricing for insurers; this is well know documented fact. Look up the Boston General merger and how the insurance companies were strongarmed into agreeing with higher and higher rates and fees by public perception.

Moreover, look at hospital networks who are "non-profit." The majority gobble up small providers en masse otherwise their incomes would destroy any sensible notion they are "non-profit" and force them to start being treated as such.

 

[Year Zero]

And those costs provide the profit for all those providers.
Now who doesnt understand healthcare ?

1. I don't agree profits should be a consideration, as healthcare being for profit has proven to be an abomination.

2. I dismiss your second point; you don't know wtf you're talking about.

 

[Celticguy]

1. I don't agree profits should be a consideration, as healthcare being for profit has proven to be an abomination.

2. I dismiss your second point; you don't know wtf you're talking about.

I worked at a "non-profit" hospital. Should have seen their "building fund". Everybody pays the going rate.

 

[Gonzomin]

Even when fraud isn't committed there's a real incentive to over treat and it's very easy to get away with.

Doctors get paid by the procedure, not the results they get. The VA actually works on results and veterans love the care they get.
Some hospitals put doctors on fixed salaries. That is also a cure for the healthcare system illness. Our system is sick. Those hospitals are highly respected for the results they achieve.

 

[anonymoose]

Doctors get paid by the procedure, not the results they get. The VA actually works on results and veterans love the care they get.

I know exactly how the VA works, I've worked with those docs. What you call results is what they call "not making mistakes". The easiest way to not make a mistake is to do as little as possible. And that's what they do - as little as possible at a job where they practically have to commit murder to get fired from.

Some hospitals put doctors on fixed salaries. That is also a cure for the healthcare system illness. Our system is sick. Those hospitals are highly respected for the results they achieve.

The only hospital I'm familiar with that does that is Ochsner in New Orleans. It's a bunch of old boys with shitty grades from so called high society New Orleans mostly who got into medical school only because of who their daddy is. For quality care it's common knowledge to stay the fuck away from that place and go to EJGH or to Covington, LA.

 

[Flash]

Imbecile, those are COSTS, not profits.

You're uneducated on HC.

Go elsewhere.

You don't think drug manufacturers, drug stores, hospitals, equipment manufacturers, etc. make a profit?

 

[Flash]

You should do some homework. There is fraud in all healthcare. Pharm is one of the worst as recent history shows. Drug companies bribed doctors to prescribe very addictive opioids to increase profits. They made billions. Now states are suing them to pay for what they did.
Hard goods manufacturers have kept prices on medical appliances at ridiculous levels by lobbying and bribing legislators.
Nationalized medicine will give control and oversight. There is a chance we can slash fraud. Continuing as we have is foolish.

Agreed. And all that fraud is occurring within the single-payer Medicare and Medicaid system. Sanders or no one else is talking about nationalized medicine. Medicare for all keeps the private system we have today.

 

[Year Zero]

You don't think drug manufacturers, drug stores, hospitals, equipment manufacturers, etc. make a profit?

Of course they make a profit. Nurses salaries and whatnot are expenses however, not "profits."

And drug manufacturers - sorry, I have no sympathy for them.

 

[Gonzomin]

I know exactly how the VA works, I've worked with those docs. What you call results is what they call "not making mistakes". The easiest way to not make a mistake is to do as little as possible. And that's what they do - as little as possible at a job where they practically have to commit murder to get fired from.
The only hospital I'm familiar with that does that is Ochsner in New Orleans. It's a bunch of old boys with shitty grades from so called high society New Orleans mostly who got into medical school only because of who their daddy is. For quality care it's common knowledge to stay the fuck away from that place and go to EJGH or to Covington, LA.

VA doctors only work to make patients healthier. Everyone I know who has access to the VA uses it over regular doctors.https://www.blogs.va.gov/VAntage/13790/va-rates-high-on-patient-satisfaction-in-national-survey/

 

[anonymoose]

VA doctors only work to make patients healthier. Everyone I know who has access to the VA uses it over regular doctors.https://www.blogs.va.gov/VAntage/13790/va-rates-high-on-patient-satisfaction-in-national-survey/

That's because they don't have to pay any copay and VA docs are adequate for getting blood pressure meds assuming you're one of the five or six patients they're willing to see for the day in between working crossword puzzles.

 

[Truth Detector]

https://pjmedia.com/trending/sander...go-down-significantly-under-medicare-for-all/

He admits there is fraud in Medicare for some. It only stands to reason that if you expand the rolls it will expand the fraud.

His idea is that removing profit will have this effect.

Um.... it didn't have this effect on Medicare for some as he already admitted.

Why ? The profit motive was not eliminated. Providers are still making a buck and as they know its easier to defraud Medicare due to its minimalist fraud enforcement (relative to commercial insurance), its easy pickins.

Oh, and he wants to cancel all medical debt. Talk about a mother lode for fraud.....

Let's be very clear; Bernie does not think. He emotes. His policies are Marxist in nature and based on what feels good, not what is REAL. This is where the entire Party of the Jackass is headed. A bunch of monstrous policies that will destroy capital markets and turn this nation into a third world shit hole like Venezuela.

 

[Truth Detector]

1. I don't agree profits should be a consideration, as healthcare being for profit has proven to be an abomination.

WRONG; Government run healthcare is the abomination. Profitable healthcare actually works.

2. I dismiss your second point; you don't know wtf you're talking about.

^^Low IQ idiot thinks he knows what he is emotionally erupting about.

 

[Gonzomin]

That's because they don't have to pay any copay and VA docs are adequate for getting blood pressure meds assuming you're one of the five or six patients they're willing to see for the day in between working crossword puzzles.

VA doctors are not under the same pressures that regular doctors are. They are not overscheduling to make more money. You do not sit in their offices for a couple of hours. You are not subjected to unneeded procedures. For most people, going to a VA doc entails driving a distance past many doctors on the way there.

 

[anonymoose]

. VA doctors are not under the same pressures that regular doctors are.

. Of course not. It's almost impossible for them to get fired or sued .

They are not overscheduling to make more money. You do not sit in their offices for a couple of hours.

. I had a doc like that. I fired him for it and sent him a hand written letter stating why. The doc I have now gets me in within five minutes. You have choices.

You are not subjected to unneeded procedures.

Nobody is. If you are an informed patient you can refuse treatment or procedures. I've done that. I actually once refused to pay for services that I found out later were unnecessary. I was sent to collections, fought it and won.

For most people, going to a VA doc entails driving a distance past many doctors on the way there. ..

Worth it to not have to pay a copay to get your BP meds refilled.

 

[Gonzomin]

. Of course not. It's almost impossible for them to get fired or sued . . I had a doc like that. I fired him for it and sent him a hand written letter stating why. The doc I have now gets me in within five minutes. You have choices. Nobody is. If you are an informed patient you can refuse treatment or procedures. I've done that. I actually once refused to pay for services that I found out later were unnecessary. I was sent to collections, fought it and won. Worth it to not have to pay a copay to get your BP meds refilled.

Some people have choices. It is funny how city people think their experiences are universal. Lots of people drive a long distance for doctors and prescriptions. They have few options.
Some of my friends drive over 40 miles to go to the VA.