Minister of Truth
Practically Perfect
Is it a separate country, now?
Big Problem For The Right: 'Socialism' Is No Longer A Bad Word. You Must Now Explain
- Thread starter PoliTalker
- Start date
Is it a separate country, now?
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello kudzu,
It is because they have all these doubts about American capitalism. It treats a few extremely well, many fairly well, but then there are these very troubling people who fall through the cracks. Is it possible for anyone in America to succeed beyond their dreams? Of course it is, but it only rarely happens. 78% of Americans have no savings and live paycheck to paycheck. Some great system. No wonder people have to dwell on and even make up things about other systems. It's easier to believe you're part of a good thing when others have it worse than you.
It is because they have all these doubts about American capitalism. It treats a few extremely well, many fairly well, but then there are these very troubling people who fall through the cracks. Is it possible for anyone in America to succeed beyond their dreams? Of course it is, but it only rarely happens. 78% of Americans have no savings and live paycheck to paycheck. Some great system. No wonder people have to dwell on and even make up things about other systems. It's easier to believe you're part of a good thing when others have it worse than you.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Cypress,
I don't understand why we would not take a serious closer look at how things are organized in nations where they live longer than the USA and have fewer gun deaths.
I don't understand why we would not take a serious closer look at how things are organized in nations where they live longer than the USA and have fewer gun deaths.
Because we label them and call them different and dangerous. Our medical system is a mess and should be universal. Our tax structure is designed to move money to the top. We have to make changes for truth, freedom and the American way. We are headed to Fascism with Trump.
I understand perfectly well why.
Conservatives don't think we should have a Scandanavian-model democratic socialist welfare state because our country has high percentages of "lazy", criminal brown people who cannot be trusted to participate in a social welfare system, and would seek to take advantage of it to live a life of leisure. The whites of Sweden can obviously be "trusted" to the mind of a conservative.
You don't even have to take my word for it. There are about five billion examples on this one message board alone where conservatives wrote that blacks only vote for the Democratic Party "to get free stuff".
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Howard the Duck,
I suggest you read my PIP.
That's trying to over-simplify the world. It's really more complex than that. If all those words meant the same thing we wouldn't need so many words. The reason we have these different words is because they are not the same thing.
I interpret ill-placed criticism as a sign that an attempt is being made to distract from a truth one wishes were not so.
And the troubling truth is: Socialism is no longer a bad word.
And that is a big problem for the right, which once had only to use the magic S-word to shut down a discussion, but now has to explain why this is so undesirable.
As we see, there is a great struggling to rise to this new challenge.
It is complicated by the fact that the USA has been using socialism, and mixing it with capitalism, quite successfully for a long time.
Many claim that capitalism has produced the highest standard of living in history for the USA. The problem with that is it is not entirely true. The standard of living in the USA kinda stunk until the New Deal. After we got a minimum wage, Social Security, and numerous government assistance programs, the standard of living in the USA shot WAY up. Thanks as much to socialism as to capitalism.
I suggest you read my PIP.
That's trying to over-simplify the world. It's really more complex than that. If all those words meant the same thing we wouldn't need so many words. The reason we have these different words is because they are not the same thing.
I interpret ill-placed criticism as a sign that an attempt is being made to distract from a truth one wishes were not so.
And the troubling truth is: Socialism is no longer a bad word.
And that is a big problem for the right, which once had only to use the magic S-word to shut down a discussion, but now has to explain why this is so undesirable.
As we see, there is a great struggling to rise to this new challenge.
It is complicated by the fact that the USA has been using socialism, and mixing it with capitalism, quite successfully for a long time.
Many claim that capitalism has produced the highest standard of living in history for the USA. The problem with that is it is not entirely true. The standard of living in the USA kinda stunk until the New Deal. After we got a minimum wage, Social Security, and numerous government assistance programs, the standard of living in the USA shot WAY up. Thanks as much to socialism as to capitalism.
Guno צְבִי
We fight, We win, Am Yisrael Chai
they know they can whip up their low iq base, their reptilian brains are binary
Minister of Truth
Practically Perfect
Again with the reading comprehension. I didn't say that progressivism, socialism, Marxism, monarchy, and fascism have the same meaning. I pointed-out that they are illiberal, which is the first reason any of them should be rejected.
floridafan
Verified User
Fascism is about as right wing as you can get, that why you support it!
Minister of Truth
Practically Perfect
Don't worry, idiot. People can see what is going on in Venezuela, despite your pathetic attempts to deflect.
Minister of Truth
Practically Perfect
I reject all illiberal ideologies equally, except for Marxism and Nazism, which I have a special hatred for. Fascism is equally bad as socialism.
floridafan
Verified User
get with the program, your kind embraces Fascism. The more corporate power, the better.
Minister of Truth
Practically Perfect
I'm no fan of socialism, or even merely onerous regulation. The problem is a responsible democracy
will create laws to deal with the amount of corruption that capitalism creates. Right now in the
USA we have slid down towards banana republic and mafia levels of crime, lack of transparency and
failed corporate ethic. Therefore there is a marked uptick in the type of regulation on business
we see coming from statehouses and DC. That does make the USA socialist, even as much as it pleases
the right wing political class of whores for the wealthy to trot that out to the cheers of its ignorant
rabble of malinformed rural lemmings. If we didn't have so much lying cheating and stealing, we wouldn't
create so much regulation to prevent lying cheating and stealing. It's your fault.
will create laws to deal with the amount of corruption that capitalism creates. Right now in the
USA we have slid down towards banana republic and mafia levels of crime, lack of transparency and
failed corporate ethic. Therefore there is a marked uptick in the type of regulation on business
we see coming from statehouses and DC. That does make the USA socialist, even as much as it pleases
the right wing political class of whores for the wealthy to trot that out to the cheers of its ignorant
rabble of malinformed rural lemmings. If we didn't have so much lying cheating and stealing, we wouldn't
create so much regulation to prevent lying cheating and stealing. It's your fault.
StoneByStone
It's OK to Be White
Holy shit, yes!
No longer can Republicans just say "you can't have universal health care because IT'S SOCIALISM!!"
Fine, that's Socialism, we don't care. Tell us WHY having universal health care is bad.
No longer can Republicans just say "you can't have universal health care because IT'S SOCIALISM!!"
Fine, that's Socialism, we don't care. Tell us WHY having universal health care is bad.
StoneByStone
It's OK to Be White
And it's getting out that Venezuela failed because of American meddling.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Howard the Duck,
Why should things illiberal be rejected?
I think we have had great success mixing socialism (which I consider to be liberal) with our capitalism and we need to continue to add more socialism as capitalism creates greater wealth inequality.
Why should things illiberal be rejected?
I think we have had great success mixing socialism (which I consider to be liberal) with our capitalism and we need to continue to add more socialism as capitalism creates greater wealth inequality.
Capitalism can't work without what the Americans call 'socialism'; for a fair time the US has been able to fool the mugs by looting the world, but even so its weird mid-Nineteenth-Century Manchester Liberalism still left a high proportion of the population very obviously worse off than anyone in most modern countries. What's obvious to everyone else will eventually get through to your masters, just wait and see!
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Howard the Duck,
Nothing pathetic about it. It is a completely academic argument. Dropping the animosity may lead to greater understanding. It's not like I am trying to bite your head off. Nor was Jarod's post. Just layin out a few concepts.
Two people can look at the same thing and see different things. Those who are hung up on the assumption that socialism is always bad are quick to over-simplify the situation in Venezuela, quick to blame socialism. Actually, capitalism and greed had a hand in what transpired there.
Socialism isn't always right all the time for every situation. Both capitalism and socialism have their good points and their bad.
That's why we are correct to have a blend of the two.
We do need to work on getting the balance correct.
The greater extreme wealth inequality becomes, the greater the need for more socialist programs such as universal health care and the UBI.
That's where it's going, you know.
And you know something else?
There's not a single thing you can do to stop it.
So you may as well get used to the idea.
We have some socialism and we are going to have more.
We need it to balance out the downside of capitalism, the way as capitalism creates extreme wealth, that it also creates masses who are lacking basic comforts and securities.
We are forced to use socialism to offset the damage that capitalism does to the economic stability of the nation.
Conservatives are all, like: 'Yaay profits!' And liberals are reminding them we also have a lot of people to consider: 'Yaay PEOPLE!'
It is not enough for conservatives to say that anybody can make it in the USA. That's true, but for most it doesn't happen. Most people are not capitalists, are not motivated by the profit motive. Most earners work for somebody else. They make one deal for a job and then they forfeit all profits to the capitalist, only drawing a salary or wage. Their only motivation to work hard is fear of losing their income stream. They could just as easily work for the government, and may even get a better deal doing so. Most people are not capitalists. That's why socialism is so popular. Conservatives managed to keep a pox on the 'dangerous' word for a long time, but those days are over. You can only fool all the people some of the time.
Capitalism seeks to extract wealth from the masses, socialism seeks to return it.
Workers are tired of seeing the wealth they created being used to build massive fortunes for a few, while so many are so lacking in their needs.
Capitalism is great for wants.
Socialism is ideal for needs.
We all have wants and needs. It is natural and correct to blend socialism and capitalism.
We just need to get the mix right.
Nothing pathetic about it. It is a completely academic argument. Dropping the animosity may lead to greater understanding. It's not like I am trying to bite your head off. Nor was Jarod's post. Just layin out a few concepts.
Two people can look at the same thing and see different things. Those who are hung up on the assumption that socialism is always bad are quick to over-simplify the situation in Venezuela, quick to blame socialism. Actually, capitalism and greed had a hand in what transpired there.
Socialism isn't always right all the time for every situation. Both capitalism and socialism have their good points and their bad.
That's why we are correct to have a blend of the two.
We do need to work on getting the balance correct.
The greater extreme wealth inequality becomes, the greater the need for more socialist programs such as universal health care and the UBI.
That's where it's going, you know.
And you know something else?
There's not a single thing you can do to stop it.
So you may as well get used to the idea.
We have some socialism and we are going to have more.
We need it to balance out the downside of capitalism, the way as capitalism creates extreme wealth, that it also creates masses who are lacking basic comforts and securities.
We are forced to use socialism to offset the damage that capitalism does to the economic stability of the nation.
Conservatives are all, like: 'Yaay profits!' And liberals are reminding them we also have a lot of people to consider: 'Yaay PEOPLE!'
It is not enough for conservatives to say that anybody can make it in the USA. That's true, but for most it doesn't happen. Most people are not capitalists, are not motivated by the profit motive. Most earners work for somebody else. They make one deal for a job and then they forfeit all profits to the capitalist, only drawing a salary or wage. Their only motivation to work hard is fear of losing their income stream. They could just as easily work for the government, and may even get a better deal doing so. Most people are not capitalists. That's why socialism is so popular. Conservatives managed to keep a pox on the 'dangerous' word for a long time, but those days are over. You can only fool all the people some of the time.
Capitalism seeks to extract wealth from the masses, socialism seeks to return it.
Workers are tired of seeing the wealth they created being used to build massive fortunes for a few, while so many are so lacking in their needs.
Capitalism is great for wants.
Socialism is ideal for needs.
We all have wants and needs. It is natural and correct to blend socialism and capitalism.
We just need to get the mix right.