Britain 10 years later after Left-wing Labor Party Elected

TheDanold

Unimatrix
I had to post this scathing article of how far left Britain has gone since the Labor party took over and how bad things have gotten. There is sometimes a presumption that because Labor abandoned it's old far left policy of trying to control the market that they are now more "moderate" or even right wing (I admit I believed this years ago).

The stats bear out how wrong that view is.

1. More Welfare:
In 1971, only eight per cent of the working population was on benefits. Today the figure is 18 per cent, and some economic think tanks estimate that one-third of British households rely on benefits for at least half their income.

2. Much Bigger Government:
In 1997, for instance, spending on the National Health Service was £33 billion ($71 billion), rising to £90 billion ($194 billion) last year. Although critics of the NHS would argue for negative productivity, the most generous estimates point to a productivity increase of just 9.9 per cent between 1998 and 2004 -- a period during which spending doubled.

3. Much higher taxes:
Taxation has risen to a 20-year high to cope with funding the state and the public services. Since 1997, the amount raised through personal taxes has risen from £175 billion ($376 billion) to nearly £370 billion ($796 billion). The OECD says that over the past four years, taxation of working families has risen in Britain, but fallen across Europe.

4. More health spending, worse results:
In 2005, 41 per cent of patients waited four months or longer for elective surgery, compared with 33 per cent in Canada, 19 per cent in Australia and less than 10 per cent in Germany and America.

5. Far more things illegal:
The Home Office, which handles crime, immigration and security, has put no less than 3,000 new offences on the statute book since 1997 -- on issues from detention without trial to the correct use of cellphones in cars.

6. Giant increases in education spending, terrible results:
Despite a doubling of spending from £29 billion ($62 billion, using current exchange rates) in 1997 to £64 billion ($138 billion) projected for 2008. The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development last year claimed a quarter of the British population aged between 25 and 34 are "low skilled" in terms of educational attainment, five times the numbers in Japan.
An OECD report also said that Britain lags behind in literacy rates among developed nations, and the U.S. Institute for Education Sciences says 14-year-olds in Britain are outperformed by 17 other countries in the developed world in terms of mathematical ability. Recent statistics showed that fully one-half of state secondary schools are failing to provide pupils with a good standard of education, and 40 per cent of 11-year-olds are leaving primary school without having reached an appropriate level in reading, writing and math. Grade inflation, through which the government stands accused of covering up low achievement, is endemic. In 1989, for instance, a grade of 48 per cent was needed to get a C in GCSE math. By the year 2000 it was 18 per cent.

http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?content=20070611_106150_106150&source=srch
 
1. More Welfare:
In 1971, only eight per cent of the working population was on benefits. Today the figure is 18 per cent, and some economic think tanks estimate that one-third of British households rely on benefits for at least half their income.

Not true.

In the height of Thatcherism, unemployment was at 11.2% in 1986, compare this to 5.5% in 2007 after years of Labour government.

What you are referring to is the implimentation of Tax Credits to working people who earn less than a certain amount.

This is tax relief, not benefits. Overall benefit levels have fallen massively in the UK under Labour compared to under Thatcherite Conservatism.


In 1997, for instance, spending on the National Health Service was £33 billion ($71 billion), rising to £90 billion ($194 billion) last year. Although critics of the NHS would argue for negative productivity, the most generous estimates point to a productivity increase of just 9.9 per cent between 1998 and 2004 -- a period during which spending doubled.

Again, selective interpretation. Increases in spending on the NHS are funded largely from savings in expenditure in other departments. This isn't bigger government, this is moving priorities within government.

Taxation has risen to a 20-year high to cope with funding the state and the public services. Since 1997, the amount raised through personal taxes has risen from £175 billion ($376 billion) to nearly £370 billion ($796 billion). The OECD says that over the past four years, taxation of working families has risen in Britain, but fallen across Europe.

This needs to be compared to increases in income. Labour market inflation correlates to national inflation, and as such the %age taken in taxation increases.

If the labour government has increased taxation it is in punative taxes such as that on smoking, drinking and driving or flying.


The Home Office, which handles crime, immigration and security, has put no less than 3,000 new offences on the statute book since 1997 -- on issues from detention without trial to the correct use of cellphones in cars.

Here you have a point, but many of the ideas we got from the US, such as banning smoking and authoritarian 'anti-terrorism' laws. Detention without trial? Compare that to Gulag Gitmo....

Despite a doubling of spending from £29 billion ($62 billion, using current exchange rates) in 1997 to £64 billion ($138 billion) projected for 2008. The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development last year claimed a quarter of the British population aged between 25 and 34 are "low skilled" in terms of educational attainment, five times the numbers in Japan.

Education in the UK amongst the poor is very bad, but that is more to do with the structure of curriculums and inability to instill discipline, but these structures have been much unchanged since Tory days....


Now, shall we do a study of America under Conservative George?

It wouldn't be pretty......
 
1. More Welfare:
In 1971, only eight per cent of the working population was on benefits. Today the figure is 18 per cent, and some economic think tanks estimate that one-third of British households rely on benefits for at least half their income.

Not true.

They lowered unemployment by government hiring, which has been paid for by debt, HUGE debt:
"The state now employs a quarter of workers in Britain, and the 900,000 hired since 1997 almost equals the fall in unemployment in the same period.
All seven million public sector workers are furnished with index-linked pensions, leaving the country with a current public sector pensions liability of, some studies contend, £700 billion ($1.5 trillion) -- twice the national debt. "
http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?content=20070611_106150_106150&source=srch

Job-creating businesses in general create more jobs with lower taxes and less regulation, in other words by attracting and keeping them there. That would be stable unemployment, what you have is borrowed time.... and sadly having no written that I am sure leftists will probably blame the Tories by the time they get back in power and this unsustainable model goes pop.
 
What you are referring to is the implimentation of Tax Credits to working people who earn less than a certain amount.

This is tax relief, not benefits. Overall benefit levels have fallen massively in the UK under Labour compared to under Thatcherite Conservatism.
No I am quite sure I am referring to benefits:
"The welfare bill is becoming unmanageable. In 1971, only eight per cent of the working population was on benefits. Today the figure is 18 per cent, and some economic think tanks estimate that one-third of British households rely on benefits for at least half their income. Catering for the demands of such a massive welfare operation and for the demands of the gigantic state workforce and public services (the National Health Service is one of the largest employers in the world) is the single biggest threat to competitiveness and, the IMF warns, will lead to rising inflation."


The IMF is not worried about inflation because of tax credits, LOL.

And why on earth would you even try that? The labor government has taken in massive more amounts in taxes, do you think they did that by more tax credits which achieves the exact opposite effect?
 
1. More Welfare:
In 1997, for instance, spending on the National Health Service was £33 billion ($71 billion), rising to £90 billion ($194 billion) last year. Although critics of the NHS would argue for negative productivity, the most generous estimates point to a productivity increase of just 9.9 per cent between 1998 and 2004 -- a period during which spending doubled.

Again, selective interpretation. Increases in spending on the NHS are funded largely from savings in expenditure in other departments. This isn't bigger government, this is moving priorities within government.

Oh I see, if they juggled spending around why have they increased taxes so much to pay for it? And why are they taking on more debt? And why is the International Monetary Fund issuing a warning that public spending is too high?

The facts don't fit your theory.
 
Not true. Whilst employment figures have increased in HM Armed Forces, nursing and teaching, public sector employment is largely on the decrease.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/pdfdir/pse0607.pdf

Mean while private sector employment is increasing at a rate of 2000/week...

http://www.hrmguide.co.uk/jobmarket/job-creation.htm

As for public service pensions, they are not all the same across the public sector, they are negotiated per department, and compensate for the lower wages paid in the public sector in comparison to the private....

Again, shall we consider the state of the US in comparison...
 
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"The welfare bill is becoming unmanageable. In 1971, only eight per cent of the working population was on benefits. Today the figure is 18 per cent, and some economic think tanks estimate that one-third of British households rely on benefits for at least half their income. Catering for the demands of such a massive welfare operation and for the demands of the gigantic state workforce and public services (the National Health Service is one of the largest employers in the world) is the single biggest threat to competitiveness and, the IMF warns, will lead to rising inflation."

I work for the Department for Work and Pensions....

Recipients of benefits...Incapacity Benefit, Jobseekers Allowance and Income Support, have decreased. The only expansion has been in Tax Credits, created under the Labour party...
 
Oh I see, if they juggled spending around why have they increased taxes so much to pay for it? And why are they taking on more debt? And why is the International Monetary Fund issuing a warning that public spending is too high?

What tax increases, outside punative taxes such as smoking, drinking and green taxes?
 
"The welfare bill is becoming unmanageable. In 1971, only eight per cent of the working population was on benefits. Today the figure is 18 per cent, and some economic think tanks estimate that one-third of British households rely on benefits for at least half their income. Catering for the demands of such a massive welfare operation and for the demands of the gigantic state workforce and public services (the National Health Service is one of the largest employers in the world) is the single biggest threat to competitiveness and, the IMF warns, will lead to rising inflation."

I work for the Department for Work and Pensions....

Recipients of benefits...Incapacity Benefit, Jobseekers Allowance and Income Support, have decreased. The only expansion has been in Tax Credits, created under the Labour party...


I love visiting England. I'd think about moving there if I could.
 
This needs to be compared to increases in income. Labour market inflation correlates to national inflation, and as such the %age taken in taxation increases.
Well that would be true, if indeed the labour market has grown, remember that those unemployed are only classified as such if they are looking for work and what you have are a very large and growing group of people, mostly young, who are not:
"NEETs, or young people "not in education, employment or training," now comprise one-fifth (1.2 million) of British 16- to 24-year-olds. In the 16 to 19 age bracket, 11 per cent are classed as NEETS, double the proportion in Germany and France -- and this despite massive spending on "welfare to work" initiatives by Gordon Brown since he declared, on taking up the reins of power in 1997, that "staying home is not an option."
Commentators scratch their heads at how so many young people are able to get away with, literally, doing nothing, "

If the labour government has increased taxation it is in punative taxes such as that on smoking, drinking and driving or flying.
I'm sorry but this is false, the article clearly states that these are personal taxes and not punitive taxes

"Since 1997, the amount raised through personal taxes has risen from £175 billion ($376 billion) to nearly £370 billion ($796 billion). The OECD says that over the past four years, taxation of working families has risen in Britain, but fallen across Europe."

and I mean come on, you really think you would raise hundreds of billions from punative taxes on smoking, drinking and flying? You'd be lucky to get over 10 billion.
 
wow.... it's like deja vu all over again.

I stop back by this site after a fairly lengthy hiatus, and the first thing I see is one of dano's "look how fucked up liberals have made the world" threads.

year in and year out.... after a while they all sort of blur together.... and make as much sense as the adults on a Charlie Brown's TV show.
 
This is largely crap. I count one instance of comparing two similar measures in the entire post and the rest is apples and aardvark.

The first looks at the period from 1971 to present. How the past 10 years of the labour party in control account for the past 26 years is beyond me.

The second, relating to government spending, looks only at one part of the budget. Wouldn't an honest assessment look at inflation adjusted total government spending over the past decade?

The third, relating to taxation, looks at increases in the amount of revenue coming in (with no mention of inflation adjustment), not at the levels of taxation. Wouldn't an honest assessment look at taxation rates and whether they have increased and by how much?

The fourth, relating to health spending and results, looks only at elective surgery waiting times and compares it to other countries, not to Engalnd pre-Labour. Wouldn't an honest assessment compare England today to Engalnd pre-Labour and look to overall health results and not merely elective surgery waiting times?

The fifth, relating to "more things illegal," is just absurd.

The sixth, relating to education spending, once again compares England to other countries, not England pre-Labour to England today.

Dano, you may be right. I don't know. But this post is pure BS.
 
Not true. Whilst employment figures have increased in HM Armed Forces, nursing and teaching, public sector employment is largely on the decrease.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/pdfdir/pse0607.pdf

This report deals with recent results. Your own chart in your own link (look at the bar graph on the right) shows tiny cuts in 2006 and 2007, contrasted to giant increases in the years preceding that.

Do you dispute the FACT that over the last 10 years of Labor party rule that the state hired 900,000 more people? Or that one out of every 4 workers in Britain is employed by the state?
 
wow.... it's like deja vu all over again.

I stop back by this site after a fairly lengthy hiatus, and the first thing I see is one of dano's "look how fucked up liberals have made the world" threads.

year in and year out.... after a while they all sort of blur together.... and make as much sense as the adults on a Charlie Brown's TV show.
Britain is the world? Actually a lot of Europe is going in the opposite direction, mainly because they have to.
 
Oh I see, if they juggled spending around why have they increased taxes so much to pay for it? And why are they taking on more debt? And why is the International Monetary Fund issuing a warning that public spending is too high?

What tax increases, outside punative taxes such as smoking, drinking and green taxes?

Here is an example:

"Brown's decision upon taking power to remove tax concessions on private pension funds has, conversely, devastated their value and channelled an extra £5 billion ($10.8 billion) a year to the Treasury. This has done huge damage to Britain's savings culture and left the person holding a devalued private sector pension paying increased sums in taxation to ensure his neighbour's public sector pension maintains its integrity."
 
"NEETs, or young people "not in education, employment or training," now comprise one-fifth (1.2 million) of British 16- to 24-year-olds. In the 16 to 19 age bracket, 11 per cent are classed as NEETS, double the proportion in Germany and France -- and this despite massive spending on "welfare to work" initiatives by Gordon Brown since he declared, on taking up the reins of power in 1997, that "staying home is not an option."

This is an issue I deal with on a daily basis. With the expansion of the EU into Eastern Europe and the relaxation of immigration controls, Britain, more than any other nation in Europe has seen a massive influx of migrant labour taking up the low skilled jobs that were traditionally taken up by this demographic. Welfare to work is only at the beginning of its implimentation, with the plan to reduce Lone Parents on Income Support and those claiming incapacity benefit.

As for NEETS, most are now being forced into training schemes as a condition of their benefits
 
As for public service pensions, they are not all the same across the public sector, they are negotiated per department, and compensate for the lower wages paid in the public sector in comparison to the private....
I'm not going to argue whether they vary, I'm sure they do, but the net result is a current public sector pensions liability of, some studies contend, £700 billion ($1.5 trillion) -- twice the national debt.

Our national debt is very bad at $9 trillion, but imagine if we owed public sector pensions of what you have with double the debt?
That would put it at $18 trillion, the number speaks for itself, it is not only not substainable but should scare you more than any other fact posted here.
 
I been there a few times. London and Wales. Usually just around London. I used to live in Germany and would fly there every now and then. I just really like the city. I'd move to Germany too lol or a number of other places. I'm sick of it here. In my experience it is actually LESS free than most other places.
 
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