busting the high French insurance copay myth

[Damocles]

tsk tsk, I thought you might learn something Damo. But alas...

Jeebus. The pot calling the kettle black.

Why would it be necessary to get supplemental insurance? Please, use a bit of that brain you've trained so long to ignore.

You say one has an agenda, then continue to promote your own. The French system is one that most people think is good. I'd agree. I just think we could make it better, and dislike that that majority of care is government owned.

If we ignore the negatives that exist, we just wind up repeating them.

 

[uscitizen]

The French method of health care works better than ours does. They have more Dr's per 1,000 citizens than we do. It costs a lot less overall. they have nearly 100% coverage of their citizens. They have more hospital beds per 1,000 citizens as well. And their lifespan is longer than Americans.

Therefore you are against it?

 

[Damocles]

The French method of health care works better than ours does. They have more Dr's per 1,000 citizens than we do. It costs a lot less overall. they have nearly 100% coverage of their citizens. They have more hospital beds per 1,000 citizens as well. And their lifespan is longer than Americans.

Therefore you are against it?

I am against the problems that are within it that are ignored. You continue to represent and argue against this strawman. There are very real problems with their system, not the least of which is the fact that not everybody can afford the care yet are "covered". It's nice to applaud that they are all "covered", but in reality some pay the payroll tax for a system they cannot afford to access.

Let's fix the problems before we emulate them.

 

[uscitizen]

not the least of which is the fact that not everybody can afford the care.
//

Nearly 100% coverage. And they still have a private health care industry as well.

Ignore the big points and dwell on the small things if you want to.
It is still far better than what we have in the good ol USA.

You should have a full bucket of nits by now.

 

[Damocles]

not the least of which is the fact that not everybody can afford the care.
//

Nearly 100% coverage. And they still have a private health care industry as well.

Ignore the big points and dwell on the small things if you want to.
It is still far better than what we have in the good ol USA.

You should have a full bucket of nits by now.

Again, it is stupid to ignore the fact that they are "covered" but still cannot afford the care. They pay the payroll tax for a system they cannot afford to access. That's bad no matter how you look at it.

 

[uscitizen]

Again, it is stupid to ignore the fact that they are "covered" but still cannot afford the care. They pay the payroll tax for a system they cannot afford to access. That's bad no matter how you look at it.

link please?

How many cannot afford to access the health care system?

 

[uscitizen]

That's cool. Maybe we should emulate Italy instead of France. But really Obama is making his own up. I just prefer to work to fix some of these issues before we implement a new plan.

Make regional areas, test different ideas until we find the absolute best.

ahh the old Bush line of more research needed.

Damo nothing will be perfect nor even if it started that way would continue to be perfect for long.
Anything better is a step in the right direction.

Just admit it you are against socialized medicine not because it does not work, but becuase of political ideology.

 

[Damocles]

link please?

How many cannot afford to access the health care system?

They aren't counted, but are considered the reason that there is no long wait. Just like you keep repeating they are "covered", true. 99% are, but only 92% get supplemental insurance.

It's kind of like the unemployment, when people stop looking and ran the course of unemployment insurance they suddenly disappear.

 

[Damocles]

ahh the old Bush line of more research needed.

Damo nothing will be perfect nor even if it started that way would continue to be perfect for long.
Anything better is a step in the right direction.

Just admit it you are against socialized medicine not because it does not work, but becuase of political ideology.

No. "Anything" is not better. We can make it worse and create a system that causes even more problems. There is never a time where doing "anything" rather than doing the smart thing is better.

 

[uscitizen]

They aren't counted, but are considered the reason that there is no long wait. Just like you keep repeating they are "covered", true. 99% are, but only 92% get supplemental insurance.

It's kind of like the unemployment, when people stop looking and ran the course of unemployment insurance they suddenly disappear.

There is no wait because they have more DR's and hospital beds per capita than we do.

Which blows the myth of all the DR's leaving the USA if se socialize medicine out of the water.

 

[uscitizen]

No. "Anything" is not better. We can make it worse and create a system that causes even more problems. There is never a time where doing "anything" rather than doing the smart thing is better.

Sigh, yeah lets just continue to let the industry regulate itself...

*shrug*

 

[Damocles]

There is no wait because they have more DR's and hospital beds per capita than we do.

Which blows the myth of all the DR's leaving the USA if se socialize medicine out of the water.

Again, while they do, that doesn't make it so they have no wait. Many simply do not go in for care, as shown by the link I used earlier. The high copays and the inability of some to afford the supplemental insurance is cited as the likely reason for the small wait time. Other places have more doctors and beds, yet still have wait periods.

I don't know why you need the French system to be perfect so badly when it very clearly isn't, and why you need to believe that nobody can improve on their system by learning what the bad parts are and seeking to plug those holes... But whatever it is, it seems to make all logic fly out of those old brain cells of yours.

Read that link, it speaks of the differences in tort, as well as the fact that doctors go to school for free. The best of them however open their own private practice and charge much more for the care.

Also note that the vast majority of care facilities are owned by the government, another thing that is likely a hard sell in the US. Even Obama isn't planning that.

 

[uscitizen]

Again, while they do, that doesn't make it so they have no wait. Many simply do not go in for care, as shown by the link I used earlier. The high copays and the inability of some to afford the supplemental insurance is cited as the likely reason for the small wait time. Other places have more doctors and beds, yet still have wait periods.

I don't know why you need the French system to be perfect so badly when it very clearly isn't, and why you need to believe that nobody can improve on their system by learning what the bad parts are and seeking to plug those holes... But whatever it is, it seems to make all logic fly out of those old brain cells of yours.

I do not NEED it to be perfect so badly.
I just want something for the USA that works a lot better. I live in a poor area and know the effects of the US health care system on it's people.

If you wait on perfection it will never happen.
And perfection is a very subjective term depending on your point of view of which there are many.
Perfection is not achievable in anything on earth.
And apparently not in heaven either since Satan was once an angel of God.

 

[Damocles]

Sigh, yeah lets just continue to let the industry regulate itself...

*shrug*

*Strawman alert* Whooop, Whooop, Whooop!

uscitizen axiom:
When you run out of logic and reason it is always best to resort to the strawman than to actually begin to think.

 

[uscitizen]

Crawfish alert!

 

[Damocles]

I do not NEED it to be perfect so badly.
I just want something for the USA that works a lot better. I live in a poor area and know the effects of the US health care system on it's people.

If you wait on perfection it will never happen.
And perfection is a very subjective term depending on your point of view of which there are many.
Perfection is not achievable in anything on earth.
And apparently not in heaven either since Satan was once an angel of God.

Duh, and I have not suggested we do nothing, just that we don't just do "anything".

We have a unique situation here in the US and could make something superlative. Instead we'll rush into something and have a flawed mess the rest of eternity.

 

[uscitizen]

Duh, and I have not suggested we do nothing, just that we don't just do "anything".

We have a unique situation here in the US and could make something superlative. Instead we'll rush into something and have a flawed mess the rest of eternity.

Well nearly 30 years and at least the right wing attitude has changed frorm "it is not broken" to lets not rush into anything.

What a rate of progress.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Again, while they do, that doesn't make it so they have no wait. Many simply do not go in for care, as shown by the link I used earlier. The high copays and the inability of some to afford the supplemental insurance is cited as the likely reason for the small wait time. Other places have more doctors and beds, yet still have wait periods.

I don't know why you need the French system to be perfect so badly when it very clearly isn't, and why you need to believe that nobody can improve on their system by learning what the bad parts are and seeking to plug those holes... But whatever it is, it seems to make all logic fly out of those old brain cells of yours.

Read that link, it speaks of the differences in tort, as well as the fact that doctors go to school for free. The best of them however open their own private practice and charge much more for the care.

Also note that the vast majority of care facilities are owned by the government, another thing that is likely a hard sell in the US. Even Obama isn't planning that.

And yet, this doesn't seem to be the case.

http://www.scielosp.org/scielo.php?pid=S0042-96862004000300017&script=sci_arttext

The French public health system — once praised by WHO as the best in the world — is overburdened, wasteful and in urgent need of an overhaul, says a government-commissioned report released in January. The diagnosis lays the groundwork for the second of two "modernization" packages — this one targeting the social security system that reimburses medical expenses, the other aimed at the public hospitals themselves — long planned by French Health Minister, Jean-François Mattei.

 

[cancel2 2022]

And yet, this doesn't seem to be the case.

http://www.scielosp.org/scielo.php?pid=S0042-96862004000300017&script=sci_arttext

The French public health system — once praised by WHO as the best in the world — is overburdened, wasteful and in urgent need of an overhaul, says a government-commissioned report released in January. The diagnosis lays the groundwork for the second of two "modernization" packages — this one targeting the social security system that reimburses medical expenses, the other aimed at the public hospitals themselves — long planned by French Health Minister, Jean-François Mattei.

This stupid fucker posts an article from 2004 with a link which doesn't work, nuff said.

 

[Damocles]

Here is the link, unsullied by color tags.

http://www.scielosp.org/scielo.php?pid=S0042-96862004000300017&script=sci_arttext