California Condor is rebounding.

Cypress said:
Wind turbines need to be designed, engineered, operated, and located to be as safe as possible to avian and bat species.

The amount of bird deaths related to oil extraction, coal power plants, mining, resource extraction, petroleum drilling and production, and the climate change associated with burning fossil fuels kills more birds - by many, many, many orders of magnitude - than wind turbines.

If our one and only concern were actually minimizing bird deaths, we would shut down all petroleum and mineral extraction, and associated power plants and supporting infrastructure tomorrow and immediately switch to wind turbines.

If you were genuinely concerned about bird deaths, your first priority would be stopping petroleum extraction, power plants, and the infrastructure associated with burning fossil fuels.
Click to expand...

Sadly condors habitat is the same place that turbines work well but that was never considered by those seeking govt $$$ to put up turbines. Just another example of why hovt has no business being in business.

The costs of what you suggest are impossible to justify so much as i like bats (they eat their weight in bugs) we fortunately do not have a shortage of them. Condors on the other hand are nearly gone.
 
Celticguy said:
Sadly condors habitat is the same place that turbines work well but that was never considered by those seeking govt $$$ to put up turbines. Just another example of why hovt has no business being in business.

The costs of what you suggest are impossible to justify so much as i like bats (they eat their weight in bugs) we fortunately do not have a shortage of them. Condors on the other hand are nearly gone.
Click to expand...

Fossil fuels and nuclear kill vastly more birds than wind farms.
It's not even in the same ball park.

https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...l-Cancer-Survivor-Found&p=2982227#post2982227

https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...l-Cancer-Survivor-Found&p=2982362#post2982362

The Avian and Wildlife Costs of Fossil Fuels and Nuclear Power

Journal of Integrative Environmental Sciences vol. 9, no. 4, December 2012, 255-278 (June 2013)

Within the uncertainties of the data used, the estimate means that wind farm-related avian fatalities equated to approximately 46,000 birds in the United States in 2009, but nuclear power plants killed about 460,000 and fossil-fueled power plants 24 million.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=2198024
Click to expand...
Avian deaths per year (Wind power): 7,193
Avian death per year (Fossil fuels): 14,5000,000 (14.5 million)
Avian death per year (Nuclear power): 327,483

Avian deaths per GWh (Wind power): 0.269
Avian death per GWh (Fossil fuels): 5.18
Avian death per GWh (Nuclear power): 0.416

hCN6HBl.jpg
 
Cypress said:
Fossil fuels and nuclear kill vastly more birds than wind farms.
It's not even in the same ball park.

https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...l-Cancer-Survivor-Found&p=2982227#post2982227

https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...l-Cancer-Survivor-Found&p=2982362#post2982362


Avian deaths per year (Wind power): 7,193
Avian death per year (Fossil fuels): 14,5000,000 (14.5 million)
Avian death per year (Nuclear power): 327,483

Avian deaths per GWh (Wind power): 0.269
Avian death per GWh (Fossil fuels): 5.18
Avian death per GWh (Nuclear power): 0.416

hCN6HBl.jpg
Click to expand...

Oddly enough the recovery of bald eagles here in central Virginia has a lot to do with coal a nuclear powerplants on the James River !
What ?
Seems bald eagles dine on sick and dying fish. Beautiful but not particularly good hunters.
The powerplants put out warm water which renders the fish catchable !
I was down by the river one day and, without moving my head left or right saw a dozen bald eagles working the river.
Doesnt fit the narrative but it is real life.
 
Cypress said:
Wind turbines need to be designed, engineered, operated, and located to be as safe as possible to avian and bat species.

The amount of bird deaths related to oil extraction, coal power plants, mining, resource extraction, petroleum drilling and production, and the climate change associated with burning fossil fuels kills more birds - by many, many, many orders of magnitude - than wind turbines.

If our one and only concern were actually minimizing bird deaths, we would shut down all petroleum and mineral extraction, and associated power plants and supporting infrastructure tomorrow and immediately switch to wind turbines.

If you were genuinely concerned about bird deaths, your first priority would be stopping petroleum extraction, power plants, and the infrastructure associated with burning fossil fuels.
Click to expand...

Not to mention killing off a lot of cats.
 
Cypress said:
The most impressive bird I have ever seen up close is the Andean condor, which is purported to be significantly larger than its California cousins.

The Venezuelans told me this bird has a ten foot wingspan! I was really taken aback at how large these things are when you see them up close.
Click to expand...

I knew before I even started the video the music would be El Condor Pasa. LOL
 
Phantasmal said:
I fell in love with them when I moved to Alaska, they mate for life. There was a female injured by an arrow in our cu de sac, the male was pacing around her in distress, making a very sad sound. We called fish and game, they came and captured the birds and I got a happy report that the female would recover.
Click to expand...

Oh, that's so wonderful! I'm so happy there are wildlife rehab folk. We had a mated pair of beautiful Trumpeter swans at WBS once. They had both been shot by two idiot rednecks who thought they were snow geese (also illegal to hunt there). The female was the more gravely injured of the two. She eventually succumbed to her injuries, while the male healed. But he mourned and called day and night for her, then he too passed away because he wanted to be with her.

muWDxDz.jpg


jrS0nSt.jpg


(The idiots were heavily fined and lost their hunting licenses.)
 
Last edited:
Cypress said:
The most impressive bird I have ever seen up close is the Andean condor, which is purported to be significantly larger than its California cousins.

The Venezuelans told me this bird has a ten foot wingspan! I was really taken aback at how large these things are when you see them up close.
Click to expand...

They're gorgeous. WBS in STL has an Andean Condor breeding program. We adopted Dorothy, who was hatched there, one year. I have one of her molted flight feathers. Its shaft is the same diameter as my pinkie finger!

https://www.worldbirdsanctuary.org/your-visit/our-animals/vultures-and-condors/dorothy/
 
Hello Cypress,

Cypress said:
The most impressive bird I have ever seen up close is the Andean condor, which is purported to be significantly larger than its California cousins.

The Venezuelans told me this bird has a ten foot wingspan! I was really taken aback at how large these things are when you see them up close.
Click to expand...

Didn't see any of them flying into a wind turbine.
 
Hello Celticguy,

Celticguy said:
Sadly condors habitat is the same place that turbines work well but that was never considered by those seeking govt $$$ to put up turbines.
Click to expand...

How do you know that wasn't considered? Do you have proof? You have yet to show us a single documented incident of a condor flying into a turbine.

Celticguy said:
Just another example of why hovt has no business being in business.

The costs of what you suggest are impossible to justify so much as i like bats (they eat their weight in bugs) we fortunately do not have a shortage of them. Condors on the other hand are nearly gone.
Click to expand...

How can you claim that when the crux of this thread is that they are making a huge comeback due to conservation efforts?

Do you dispute the comeback?
 
Hello Cypress,

Cypress said:
Fossil fuels and nuclear kill vastly more birds than wind farms.
It's not even in the same ball park.

https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...l-Cancer-Survivor-Found&p=2982227#post2982227

https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...l-Cancer-Survivor-Found&p=2982362#post2982362


Avian deaths per year (Wind power): 7,193
Avian death per year (Fossil fuels): 14,5000,000 (14.5 million)
Avian death per year (Nuclear power): 327,483

Avian deaths per GWh (Wind power): 0.269
Avian death per GWh (Fossil fuels): 5.18
Avian death per GWh (Nuclear power): 0.416

hCN6HBl.jpg
Click to expand...

If only it were possible to add a thousand thanks by clicking the thanks button that many times I would do it.

Needless to say,

THANK YOU for posting that.
 
Celticguy said:
Oddly enough the recovery of bald eagles here in central Virginia has a lot to do with coal a nuclear powerplants on the James River !
What ?
Seems bald eagles dine on sick and dying fish. Beautiful but not particularly good hunters.
The powerplants put out warm water which renders the fish catchable !
I was down by the river one day and, without moving my head left or right saw a dozen bald eagles working the river.
Doesnt fit the narrative but it is real life.
Click to expand...

A niche phenomenon.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Oh, that's so wonderful! I'm so happy there are wildlife rehab folk. We had a mated pair of beautiful Trumpeter swans at WBS once. They had both been shot by two idiot rednecks who thought they were snow geese (also illegal to hunt there). The female was the more gravely injured of the two. She eventually succumbed to her injuries, while the male healed. But he mourned and called day and night for her, then he too passed away because he wanted to be with her.

muWDxDz.jpg


jrS0nSt.jpg


(The idiots were heavily fined and lost their hunting licenses.)
Click to expand...

TAKE AWAY THEIR GUNS
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Cypress,



If only it were possible to add a thousand thanks by clicking the thanks button that many times I would do it.

Needless to say,

THANK YOU for posting that.
Click to expand...

I am much obliged.

On another avian tangent, another shore bird I like to watch are cormorants. I knew they were incredible swimmers and divers, but this video footage was remarkable to me. This cormorant dived to a depth of 150 feet and stayed submerged for nearly three minutes. Undoubtedly, that is not even a demonstration of its maximum diving capabilities.

 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Celticguy,



How do you know that wasn't considered? Do you have proof? You have yet to show us a single documented incident of a condor flying into a turbine.



How can you claim that when the crux of this thread is that they are making a huge comeback due to conservation efforts?

Do you dispute the comeback?
Click to expand...

They were surprized or so they say.
It was no secret where condors hunt.
I am delighted at the comeback. I have to think that its a limited viewpoint as to why.
https://www.wind-watch.org/news/2009/10/07/wind-turbines-are-killing-condors/
If you cared about conversation you should have known this.
 
Hello Celticguy,

Celticguy said:
They were surprized or so they say.
It was no secret where condors hunt.
I am delighted at the comeback. I have to think that its a limited viewpoint as to why.
https://www.wind-watch.org/news/2009/10/07/wind-turbines-are-killing-condors/
If you cared about conversation you should have known this.
Click to expand...

Sounds plausible, but there is this puzzling little problem with the headline. It is not documented. It is conjecture. This sentence from your link gives away the misleading title:

"The fact is, in recent years, many missing condors have most likely perished at wind farms in California."

That is not a fact. That is a guess.

Now, it is very reasonable that if an organization such as "National Wind Watch," "a nonprofit coalition for raising awareness of the shortcomings of industrial wind energy and its negative impacts on the environment, economy, and quality of life," was able to document that condors were being killed by turbines, that they would document that on their site.

But they haven't.

And that strongly suggests no condors have been killed by turbines.

"I am an expert on birds of prey and in my opinion, California condors have died at the Tehachapi Pass wind farm. An independent team of observers having full access to the Tehachapi Pass wind farm could confirm this in 12 to 24 months time. "

This opinion piece you linked was from 2007. It said there were 130 condors in the wild. Now, we hear that there are 1000. Plenty of time has passed for this suggestion of his to occur. Why was this the best link you could find? Is there no newer link providing the results of his proposed study? Is that because the ban on lead bullets in the region had the intended effect? It WAS scientifically documented that lead bullets were responsible for killing condors. Why are you unable to find any documentation that turbines have also taken at least ONE BIRD?
 
Celticguy said:
They were surprized or so they say.
It was no secret where condors hunt.
I am delighted at the comeback. I have to think that its a limited viewpoint as to why.
https://www.wind-watch.org/news/2009/10/07/wind-turbines-are-killing-condors/
If you cared about conversation you should have known this.
Click to expand...

Condors do not hunt. They are scavengers.

Condors are so closely tracked and monitored by state and federal wildlife biologists, that I am pretty sure they would know if a Condor had been killed by a wind turbine, and there would be credible documentary, photographic, and eyewitness testimony about it.

The bottom line is that wind turbines are far safer to avian wildlife and habitat compared to traditional sources of energy, aka petroleum exploration and production, nuclear power, coal fire power plants, and all the infrastructure supporting them.
 
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