Can any leftist answer?

Diogenes

1 account to rule them all
➊ You claim that the Earth is overheating. You say it’s “too hot.” So, what is the correct global mean surface temperature (GMST) for life on Earth and why? Please provide a numerical answer. Use units and round it to the nearest tenth of a degree Celsius. Then, explain why that value is ideal and cite evidence to justify your answer.

➋ What is the correct atmospheric CO₂ level for life on Earth? What level optimizes our agricultural productivity? What CO₂ level will make weather less scary? Give your answer as an exact value in a mole fraction or volume percentage, and then explain why that value is ideal.

➌ What makes CO₂ “pollution”? The EPA considers CO₂ to be a pollutant, legally speaking, under the Clean Air Act, and their scientific justification is simply that, it “…𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑡𝑟𝑖𝑏𝑢𝑡𝑒𝑠 𝑡𝑜 𝑔𝑟𝑒𝑒𝑛ℎ𝑜𝑢𝑠𝑒 𝑔𝑎𝑠 𝑝𝑜𝑙𝑙𝑢𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑡𝑒𝑛𝑠 𝑝𝑢𝑏𝑙𝑖𝑐 ℎ𝑒𝑎𝑙𝑡ℎ 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑤𝑒𝑙𝑓𝑎𝑟𝑒.” https://epa.gov/climate-change/endangerment-and-cause-or-contribute-findings-greenhouse-gases-under-section-202a…That seems pretty ambiguous. Because by that measure, water vapor should also be classified as a “pollutant” because it’s also a “greenhouse gas” (GHG) — in fact, it’s the most abundant GHG and it absorbs a wider spectrum of IR wavelengths than CO₂. So, what makes CO₂ pollution?

➍ Why are temperature departures from 1850-1900 climate conditions deemed as the human welfare control knob given that the overall human condition has never been better than it is today? How is was climate during the end of the Little Ice Age — the coldest period in the last 10,000-years — preferable to today’s? On what account was the weather more benign? By what measure? Be specific. Tell me how the climate was supposedly less dangerous in the 17-19th centuries.

➎ The Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) that President Biden signed into law in 2022 was popularized as the “biggest climate bill in history,” but ever since the bill was signed, climate alarmists insist climate change has only gotten worse. Why are we not seeing the bill work its magic? What’s not working? https://axios.com/2024/07/21/biden-legacy-election-2024…

➏ The estimated cost of net zero by the year 2050 in the U.S. is $75 trillion ($3 trillion per year), according to Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen. https://politico.com/news/2024/07/27/yellen-amazon-climate-change-00171522… That’s a hefty price tag. And with ~165 million U.S. taxpayers, it would cost each of us >$450,000 to get to “net zero” by the target date. Are you willing to shell out that money, or do you just expect that everyone else will foot the bill for you?

➐ If we spend $75 trillion to decarbonize the economy by 2050, by how much will it reduce the GMST by the end of the century? Please provide your answer to the nearest tenth of a degree Celsius and show your calculations. What does the perfect climate look like? How will we know when we get there? By what measure? If you don’t know the answer to question six, are we supposed to spend $75 trillion and just see what happens?

➑ If “combating climate change” is a global concerted effort, why do China and India get a free pass to continue emitting CO₂ without bound? Why are they never criticized?

➒ Why are you so vehemently opposed to the deployment of nuclear power? It is the safest, most sustainable “carbon-free” energy technology, and without the compliance regulations, it isn’t expensive when compared to solar PV and wind, which are inefficient, intermittent, costly add-ons to existing electricity generation sources.

➓ If humans are parasites on the Earth and we are destroying it, why not be the change you want to see and decarbonize yourself?
 
GeNcPaFXQAAQb8x


  • 1960s - “Oil will run out in 10 years.”
  • 1970s - “A new Ice Age is coming in 10 years.”
  • 1980s - “Acid rain will destroy all crops in 10 years.”
  • 1990s - “The ozone layer will disappear in 10 years.”
  • 2000s - “The Arctic ice caps will be gone in 10 years.”
  • 2010s - “Global warming will cause irreversible damage in 10 years unless we act now.”


NONE of it happened
 
➊ You claim that the Earth is overheating. You say it’s “too hot.” So, what is the correct global mean surface temperature (GMST) for life on Earth and why? Please provide a numerical answer. Use units and round it to the nearest tenth of a degree Celsius. Then, explain why that value is ideal and cite evidence to justify your answer.

➋ What is the correct atmospheric CO₂ level for life on Earth? What level optimizes our agricultural productivity? What CO₂ level will make weather less scary? Give your answer as an exact value in a mole fraction or volume percentage, and then explain why that value is ideal.

➌ What makes CO₂ “pollution”? The EPA considers CO₂ to be a pollutant, legally speaking, under the Clean Air Act, and their scientific justification is simply that, it “…𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑡𝑟𝑖𝑏𝑢𝑡𝑒𝑠 𝑡𝑜 𝑔𝑟𝑒𝑒𝑛ℎ𝑜𝑢𝑠𝑒 𝑔𝑎𝑠 𝑝𝑜𝑙𝑙𝑢𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑡𝑒𝑛𝑠 𝑝𝑢𝑏𝑙𝑖𝑐 ℎ𝑒𝑎𝑙𝑡ℎ 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑤𝑒𝑙𝑓𝑎𝑟𝑒.” https://epa.gov/climate-change/endangerment-and-cause-or-contribute-findings-greenhouse-gases-under-section-202a…That seems pretty ambiguous. Because by that measure, water vapor should also be classified as a “pollutant” because it’s also a “greenhouse gas” (GHG) — in fact, it’s the most abundant GHG and it absorbs a wider spectrum of IR wavelengths than CO₂. So, what makes CO₂ pollution?

➍ Why are temperature departures from 1850-1900 climate conditions deemed as the human welfare control knob given that the overall human condition has never been better than it is today? How is was climate during the end of the Little Ice Age — the coldest period in the last 10,000-years — preferable to today’s? On what account was the weather more benign? By what measure? Be specific. Tell me how the climate was supposedly less dangerous in the 17-19th centuries.

➎ The Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) that President Biden signed into law in 2022 was popularized as the “biggest climate bill in history,” but ever since the bill was signed, climate alarmists insist climate change has only gotten worse. Why are we not seeing the bill work its magic? What’s not working? https://axios.com/2024/07/21/biden-legacy-election-2024…

➏ The estimated cost of net zero by the year 2050 in the U.S. is $75 trillion ($3 trillion per year), according to Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen. https://politico.com/news/2024/07/27/yellen-amazon-climate-change-00171522… That’s a hefty price tag. And with ~165 million U.S. taxpayers, it would cost each of us >$450,000 to get to “net zero” by the target date. Are you willing to shell out that money, or do you just expect that everyone else will foot the bill for you?

➐ If we spend $75 trillion to decarbonize the economy by 2050, by how much will it reduce the GMST by the end of the century? Please provide your answer to the nearest tenth of a degree Celsius and show your calculations. What does the perfect climate look like? How will we know when we get there? By what measure? If you don’t know the answer to question six, are we supposed to spend $75 trillion and just see what happens?

➑ If “combating climate change” is a global concerted effort, why do China and India get a free pass to continue emitting CO₂ without bound? Why are they never criticized?

➒ Why are you so vehemently opposed to the deployment of nuclear power? It is the safest, most sustainable “carbon-free” energy technology, and without the compliance regulations, it isn’t expensive when compared to solar PV and wind, which are inefficient, intermittent, costly add-ons to existing electricity generation sources.

➓ If humans are parasites on the Earth and we are destroying it, why not be the change you want to see and decarbonize yourself?

GeNcPaFXQAAQb8x


  • 1960s - “Oil will run out in 10 years.”
  • 1970s - “A new Ice Age is coming in 10 years.”
  • 1980s - “Acid rain will destroy all crops in 10 years.”
  • 1990s - “The ozone layer will disappear in 10 years.”
  • 2000s - “The Arctic ice caps will be gone in 10 years.”
  • 2010s - “Global warming will cause irreversible damage in 10 years unless we act now.”


NONE of it happened
So you say.
 
➊ You claim that the Earth is overheating. You say it’s “too hot.” So, what is the correct global mean surface temperature (GMST) for life on Earth and why?

There is no optimum or correct global temperature nor does anyone believe there is. LIterally NO ONE says there should be. Certainly no scientist.

WHAT IS IMPORTANT IS: the CHANGE in the overall climate. The OVERALL temperature is increasing globally, but individually in locations the climate may change to a WARMER OR A COOLER environment locally. The climate is a complex interaction between many sub-climates. Climate change is what happens when the overall global temperature increases leading to changes locally which may cause some places to cool.

Here's how (for example): The gulf stream is what brings warm water and warm air up from the Tropics to Western Europe. That warm water causes the climate of western Europe to be WARMER than it would be WITHOUT the Gulf Stream.

Global warming is causing the Greenland Ice Sheet to melt which is putting cold FRESH water into the upper part of the Gulf Stream. The reason the Gulf Stream exists is because of salinity and temperature differences. If you pump a lot of cold fresh water into the gulf stream (mostly saline water) you can destabilize the Gulf Stream. This is already being observed in the water temperatures.

This will ultimately lead to a massive shift in Western Europe to a COOLER climate which will, of course, decimate their agriculture etc. and lead to lots of bad things.

But locally the area gets COOLER while the globe overall warms up. (It's a big place).

Finally: the real problem will be the impact it has on our economy, agriculture and other resource availabilities.



➋ What is the correct atmospheric CO₂ level for life on Earth? What level optimizes our agricultural productivity? What CO₂ level will make weather less scary? Give your answer as an exact value in a mole fraction or volume percentage, and then explain why that value is ideal.

Same answer. No "proper" level of CO2.

Humans have evolved in a world with a global set of climates that have remained largely stable over the last 14,000 years since humans settled in towns. Changing the climate QUICKLY after we've only ever known the present climate will result in problems.

Again it is the CHANGE, not the absolute value.


➌ What makes CO₂ “pollution”?

CO2 is treated as a pollutant in order to track it's concentration changes in the atmosphere. While the CO2 doesn't cause us to be physically ill like many pollutants, it WILL PROBABLY LEAD TO SEVERE DAMAGE TO OUR ECONOMY AND SOCIETY, so it's still problematic and needs to be tracked.

➍ Why are temperature departures from 1850-1900 climate conditions deemed as the human welfare control knob given that the overall human condition has never been better than it is today?

What is actually measured in climate change science is the TEMPERATURE ANOMALY. NOT the temperature. So they use a baseline (although I have no idea where you got your numbers, that is usually not the baseline used for anomalies), but you get the point.

The 1850's is thought to be the time when climate change really started to ramp up. With mass industrialization.

➑ If “combating climate change” is a global concerted effort, why do China and India get a free pass to continue emitting CO₂ without bound? Why are they never criticized?

We can only control ourselves. Last I checked we cannot force China to do anything. Besides they actually have put some effort in on environmental regulations. Not enough, obviously. And if they put in too many we'll move our manufacturing to someplace that doesn't have it because we value cheap goods, not safe worlds.

➒ Why are you so vehemently opposed to the deployment of nuclear power?

Not everyone is.

➓ If humans are parasites on the Earth and we are destroying it, why not be the change you want to see and decarbonize yourself?

Most of us do. Then we have to be insulted by people who don't.
 
Still nothing but a hyperlink that Nerdsperg likely never even visited personally.

The appeal to authority is herewith dismissed with prejudice.

The questions in the OP remain unanswered.
That was horrible. NASA is deeply involved in monitoring climate change. They have trained scientists doing the work. They have been at it for decades. The appeal to authority is a win, They are the authorities on climate change and you are not. The answer is complete and solid.
 
That was horrible. NASA is deeply involved in monitoring climate change. They have trained scientists doing the work. They have been at it for decades. The appeal to authority is a win, They are the authorities on climate change and you are not. The answer is complete and solid.


Still nothing but a hyperlink that Nerdsperg likely never even visited personally.

The appeal to authority was previously dismissed with prejudice. The motion to reapply is denied.

The questions in the OP remain unanswered.
 
AOC and other crazed lefties predicted the world would end in 10 years or so. Some of these
absurd predictions took place well over 10 years ago. Does anyone here believe that we're
facing a certain climate change Armageddon?
 
There is no optimum or correct global temperature nor does anyone believe there is. LIterally NO ONE says there should be. Certainly no scientist. WHAT IS IMPORTANT IS: the CHANGE in the overall climate. The OVERALL temperature is increasing globally, but individually in locations the climate may change to a WARMER OR A COOLER environment locally. The climate is a complex interaction between many sub-climates. Climate change is what happens when the overall global temperature increases leading to changes locally which may cause some places to cool. Here's how (for example): The gulf stream is what brings warm water and warm air up from the Tropics to Western Europe. That warm water causes the climate of western Europe to be WARMER than it would be WITHOUT the Gulf Stream. Global warming is causing the Greenland Ice Sheet to melt which is putting cold FRESH water into the upper part of the Gulf Stream. The reason the Gulf Stream exists is because of salinity and temperature differences. If you pump a lot of cold fresh water into the gulf stream (mostly saline water) you can destabilize the Gulf Stream. This is already being observed in the water temperatures. This will ultimately lead to a massive shift in Western Europe to a COOLER climate which will, of course, decimate their agriculture etc. and lead to lots of bad things. But locally the area gets COOLER while the globe overall warms up. (It's a big place). Finally: the real problem will be the impact it has on our economy, agriculture and other resource availabilities. Same answer. No "proper" level of CO2. Humans have evolved in a world with a global set of climates that have remained largely stable over the last 14,000 years since humans settled in towns. Changing the climate QUICKLY after we've only ever known the present climate will result in problems. Again it is the CHANGE, not the absolute value. CO2 is treated as a pollutant in order to track it's concentration changes in the atmosphere. While the CO2 doesn't cause us to be physically ill like many pollutants, it WILL PROBABLY LEAD TO SEVERE DAMAGE TO OUR ECONOMY AND SOCIETY, so it's still problematic and needs to be tracked. What is actually measured in climate change science is the TEMPERATURE ANOMALY. NOT the temperature. So they use a baseline (although I have no idea where you got your numbers, that is usually not the baseline used for anomalies), but you get the point. The 1850's is thought to be the time when climate change really started to ramp up. With mass industrialization. We can only control ourselves. Last I checked we cannot force China to do anything. Besides they actually have put some effort in on environmental regulations. Not enough, obviously. And if they put in too many we'll move our manufacturing to someplace that doesn't have it because we value cheap goods, not safe worlds. Not everyone is. Most of us do. Then we have to be insulted by people who don't.


Did not follow baseline instructions. Peer reviewed and rejected.

iu


The questions in the OP remain unanswered.
 
➊ You claim that the Earth is overheating. You say it’s “too hot.” So, what is the correct global mean surface temperature (GMST) for life on Earth and why?

There is no optimum or correct global temperature nor does anyone believe there is. LIterally NO ONE says there should be. Certainly no scientist.

WHAT IS IMPORTANT IS: the CHANGE in the overall climate. The OVERALL temperature is increasing globally, but individually in locations the climate may change to a WARMER OR A COOLER environment locally. The climate is a complex interaction between many sub-climates. Climate change is what happens when the overall global temperature increases leading to changes locally which may cause some places to cool.

Here's how (for example): The gulf stream is what brings warm water and warm air up from the Tropics to Western Europe. That warm water causes the climate of western Europe to be WARMER than it would be WITHOUT the Gulf Stream.

Global warming is causing the Greenland Ice Sheet to melt which is putting cold FRESH water into the upper part of the Gulf Stream. The reason the Gulf Stream exists is because of salinity and temperature differences. If you pump a lot of cold fresh water into the gulf stream (mostly saline water) you can destabilize the Gulf Stream. This is already being observed in the water temperatures.

This will ultimately lead to a massive shift in Western Europe to a COOLER climate which will, of course, decimate their agriculture etc. and lead to lots of bad things.

But locally the area gets COOLER while the globe overall warms up. (It's a big place).

Finally: the real problem will be the impact it has on our economy, agriculture and other resource availabilities.



➋ What is the correct atmospheric CO₂ level for life on Earth? What level optimizes our agricultural productivity? What CO₂ level will make weather less scary? Give your answer as an exact value in a mole fraction or volume percentage, and then explain why that value is ideal.

Same answer. No "proper" level of CO2.

Humans have evolved in a world with a global set of climates that have remained largely stable over the last 14,000 years since humans settled in towns. Changing the climate QUICKLY after we've only ever known the present climate will result in problems.

Again it is the CHANGE, not the absolute value.


➌ What makes CO₂ “pollution”?

CO2 is treated as a pollutant in order to track it's concentration changes in the atmosphere. While the CO2 doesn't cause us to be physically ill like many pollutants, it WILL PROBABLY LEAD TO SEVERE DAMAGE TO OUR ECONOMY AND SOCIETY, so it's still problematic and needs to be tracked.

➍ Why are temperature departures from 1850-1900 climate conditions deemed as the human welfare control knob given that the overall human condition has never been better than it is today?

What is actually measured in climate change science is the TEMPERATURE ANOMALY. NOT the temperature. So they use a baseline (although I have no idea where you got your numbers, that is usually not the baseline used for anomalies), but you get the point.

The 1850's is thought to be the time when climate change really started to ramp up. With mass industrialization.

➑ If “combating climate change” is a global concerted effort, why do China and India get a free pass to continue emitting CO₂ without bound? Why are they never criticized?

We can only control ourselves. Last I checked we cannot force China to do anything. Besides they actually have put some effort in on environmental regulations. Not enough, obviously. And if they put in too many we'll move our manufacturing to someplace that doesn't have it because we value cheap goods, not safe worlds.

➒ Why are you so vehemently opposed to the deployment of nuclear power?

Not everyone is.

➓ If humans are parasites on the Earth and we are destroying it, why not be the change you want to see and decarbonize yourself?

Most of us do. Then we have to be insulted by people who don't.
 
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