Can one prove god exists? or doesn't?

Grugore said:
All right. Show me something that created itself.
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Why do people like you gratuitously claim that "existence" was "created" and then insist it must therefore require a "creator?"

You do not know if existence was created or not.

EVERYTHING...including the physical UNIVERSE...may not have been "created"...but may always have existed.
 
Grugore said:
Nothing physical can create itself. The universe is physical. That means it was created. That means God exists. Simple logic.
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Maybe some sort of god created the sub atomic particles whose totally random confluence constitutes the entire universe.

That possible "supreme being" obviously exerts no influence over that confluence of particles so why should anybody care if it exists or not?

The universe is random.
For every beautiful sunrise over a mountain stream,
there's a malignant tumor forming in an innocent baby's head or something just as bad.
Thus, the existence or absence of a god is completely irrelevant.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
Maybe some sort of god created the sub atomic particles whose totally random confluence constitutes the entire universe.

That possible "supreme being" obviously exerts no influence over that confluence of particles so why should anybody care if it exists or not?

The universe is random.
For every beautiful sunrise over a mountain stream,
there's a malignant tumor forming in an innocent baby's head or something just as bad.
Thus, the existence or absence of a god is completely irrelevant.
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You are a fool. What you just posted proves it. I'd explain, but I'd just be wasting my breath. For instance, I could mention the universal physical constants. Those aren't random like you claim. They are immaterial, yet they affect the material. Without them, the universe would not even exist. Where did they come from? They are not matter or energy. No one knows what they are, or how they effect anything at all. I say that they are the power of God. The power that binds all things. It's as good an explanation as any scientific "theories".
 
Grugore said:
You are a fool. What you just posted proves it. I'd explain, but I'd just be wasting my breath. For instance, I could mention the universal physical constants. Those aren't random like you claim. They are immaterial, yet they affect the material. Without them, the universe would not even exist. Where did they come from? They are not matter or energy. No one knows what they are, or how they effect anything at all. I say that they are the power of God. The power that binds all things. It's as good an explanation as any scientific "theories".
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Above are the musings of a complete idiot.
You really need institutional care, Grugore
 
NiftyNiblick said:
Above are the musings of a complete idiot.
You really need institutional care, Grugore
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Perhaps you could back that up by telling us why the universal physical constants exist. As I said, they are not material in nature. In fact, they are not made out of anything. You could even say that they are nothing. Yet they effect everything.
 
Grugore said:
Still waiting for an example of something that created itself. Anyone?
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What difference does it make?

Perhaps "existence (the UNIVERSE) was NOT created.

You are just gratuitously asserting that it was "created" so that you can demand the need for a "creator."

The question, "Why is there a need for a 'creator' for something that was not 'created?'"

Both would contain a gratuitous assertion...one, that existence was created and the other, that existence was NOT created.

Stop with the bullshit.
 
Grugore said:
Perhaps you could back that up by telling us why the universal physical constants exist. As I said, they are not material in nature. In fact, they are not made out of anything. You could even say that they are nothing. Yet they effect everything.
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Why don't you just acknowledge that you blind guess that a GOD exists...IS NOTHING MORE THAN A BLIND GUESS?

Stop with the bullshit.

You cannot establish that a GOD exists using reason, logic, science, or math. You cannot establish that NO gods exist that way either.

All we can do is to make blind guesses in either direction (or not make a guess)...

...and in YOUR case, to pretend you are making a logical case.
 
Wilhelm Zenz said:
MANILA, Philippines (AP) — The Philippine president, who recently sparked outrage for calling God stupid, has courted new controversy in his largely Roman Catholic country by saying he will resign if anybody can prove that God exists.
https://religionnews.com/2018/07/07/duterte-vows-to-resign-if-anybody-can-prove-god-exists/
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That is exactly the challenge made by Lenin, Stalin, and the totalitarian soviet communists.
And generally made while they were executing Orthodox priests.

It is a metaphysical question that is beyond the realm of scientific inquiry.

Reason and free will are the realm of the educated human. But I am not going to deny that the nature of ultimate reality is a philosophical question that is not suited to the limitations of natural science and mathematics.
 
Flash said:
Can something spiritual create itself?
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No matter what else you believe, it is a fact that there must be a cause that was not caused. Otherwise, you have an infinite regression of causes, which is impossible. There must be something or someone that was the original cause of everything.
 
Grugore said:
No matter what else you believe, it is a fact that there must be a cause that was not caused. Otherwise, you have an infinite regression of causes, which is impossible. There must be something or someone that was the original cause of everything.
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Be man enough to acknowledge that EXISTENCE may always have EXISTED.

This sophomoric thesis of yours about an uncaused cause...is pathetic. It was pathetic when Aquinas proposed it...and it is even more pathetic the way you are offering it.
 
We are souls in the material ocean of Life [birth & death in-separately paired] in a world base on physical laws of duality [ie: black/white; up/down; left/right; male/female] etc.

The singularity is summed up in the walking talking thinking creature at the top of the heap of it all.

We are afloat [or submerged] in an ocean. We are bobbing in a vast place of inert elements ---where we play house--- the common denominator is personhood.
 
Frank,

What is God?

What is there to prove about this God?

If you were shown God...then what?

Have you an opinion/plan/speech ready ...for when you would be face-to-face with God?

You don't know what to expect? You don't know what to do in the presence of God?

Lodge complaints? Ask for a ham sandwich? Expect your feet to washed?

What preparations should an educated and sincere person make if it is God's existence is proven?

What preparations should an educated and sincere person make if it is God's existence is NOT proven?
 
bhaktajan said:
Frank,

What is God?

What is there to prove about this God?

If you were shown God...then what?

Have you an opinion/plan/speech ready ...for when you would be face-to-face with God?

You don't know what to expect? You don't know what to do in the presence of God?

Lodge complaints? Ask for a ham sandwich? Expect your feet to washed?

What preparations should an educated and sincere person make if it is God's existence is proven?

What preparations should an educated and sincere person make if it is God's existence is NOT proven?
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What in the fuck are you babbling on about?
 
Frank Apisa said:
What in the fuck are you babbling on about?
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a] Answer the questions!

What is God?

What is there to prove about this God?

If you were shown God...then what?

Have you an opinion/plan/speech ready ...for when you would be face-to-face with God?

You don't know what to expect? You don't know what to do in the presence of God?

Lodge complaints? Ask for a ham sandwich? Expect your feet to washed?

What preparations should an educated and sincere person make if it is God's existence is proven?

What preparations should an educated and sincere person make if it is God's existence is NOT proven?

b] If you don't answer ---then you are trolling about a topic that you can't even identify.

Identify God!

You can identify Elvis.
You can identify 14 karat Gold.
You can identify all sorts of sea life.
You can identify many car models.
You can identify pornography.
You can identify a mugger in a line up.

Please identify God.


Blathering on and on about the existence of something you cannot identify!
 
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