Can real civil discourse and good governance exist in our current 2-party paradigm?

C

cwjerome

Verified User
I say no. The toxic partisan dysfunction that exists cannot fix itself and will only continue (and only get worse).

It will take a nearly impossible effort of non-partisans, moderates, and independents (ie. reasonable non-maniacs) to force the political culture and electoral structure into change.

What say you?
 
Obviously, we have done it before.

The root problem is that so many people are shit quality now, the system is not the problem, the people are.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Obviously, we have done it before.

The root problem is that so many people are shit quality now, the system is not the problem, the people are.
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It's both. Our current two-party system is incredibly tribal, incredibly cultish, and exists only to win elections at any cost. It's tearing down essential values that hold things together. The system is has broken down and the people are 'all in' on the dysfunction.
 
cwjerome said:
It's both. Our current two-party system is incredibly tribal, incredibly cultish, and exists only to win elections at any cost. It's tearing down essential values that hold things together. The system is has broken down and the people are 'all in' on the dysfunction.
Click to expand...

No, it would be fine if we treated each other with dignity and respect, which has been done before, and nothing will work so long we continue to choose to not do that.

We have been trained by the Victim Culture Cult that nothing is ever our fault, it is always someonelses fault or the fault of the system, which is wrong.

Fix yourself first....only after that fails should you be looking for someone else to pin problems on.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
No, it would be fine if we treated each other with dignity and respect, which has been done before, and nothing will work so long we continue to choose to not do that.

We have been trained by the Victim Culture Cult that nothing is ever our fault, it is always someonelses fault or the fault of the system, which is wrong.

Fix yourself first....only after that fails should you be looking for someone else to pin problems on.
Click to expand...

I agree with everything you said, but the electoral system we've created local/state/national promotes the dysfunction and hinders proper discourse and competition. It's a rigged system and only the parties/politicians benefit.
 
cwjerome said:
I say no. The toxic partisan dysfunction that exists cannot fix itself and will only continue (and only get worse).

It will take a nearly impossible effort of non-partisans, moderates, and independents (ie. reasonable non-maniacs) to force the political culture and electoral structure into change.

What say you?
Click to expand...

it's totally doable.

we'll probably have six parties this time next year.
 
cwjerome said:
I agree with everything you said, but the electoral system we've created local/state/national promotes the dysfunction and hinders proper discourse and competition. It's a rigged system and only the parties/politicians benefit.
Click to expand...

Nothing is perfect and the two party system worked when we willed it to work, when we chose to treat each other humanely and choose to work for the common good. You should be looking more at the problem that so many people are so ignorant now , which happened because people choose to not get educated, because the schools have been taken over by the Victim Culture Cult which uses them as indoctrination centers, and because that cult also destroyed journalism. You should also be looking at the tragedy of the commons problem which will almost certainly never be solved by any political system, that will only be solved by education and enlightened self interest...the will towards the good.
 
cwjerome said:
I agree with everything you said, but the electoral system we've created local/state/national promotes the dysfunction and hinders proper discourse and competition. It's a rigged system and only the parties/politicians benefit.
Click to expand...

how so? are people no longer allowed to vote with their feet?
 
SmarterthanYou said:
how so? are people no longer allowed to vote with their feet?
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And move out of the country? I guess they can.

Reps and Dems have been making policies and election laws for 150 years that's created a closed system and we've been socialized to think that's OK. It's a rigged system that puts party over people and has created this toxic mess.

I made a new FB page called "The Radical Independent" because every few years I get a hair to wake people up. But it'll probably go nowhere, lol
 
cwjerome said:
I say no. The toxic partisan dysfunction that exists cannot fix itself and will only continue (and only get worse).

It will take a nearly impossible effort of non-partisans, moderates, and independents (ie. reasonable non-maniacs) to force the political culture and electoral structure into change.

What say you?
Click to expand...


The two party system is deeply flawed. Most countries have a parliament. But we are far from even considering that.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Nothing is perfect and the two party system worked when we willed it to work, when we chose to treat each other humanely and choose to work for the common good. You should be looking more at the problem that so many people are so ignorant now , which happened because people choose to not get educated, because the schools have been taken over by the Victim Culture Cult which uses them as indoctrination centers, and because that cult also destroyed journalism. You should also be looking at the tragedy of the commons problem which will almost certainly never be solved by any political system, that will only be solved by education and enlightened self interest...the will towards the good.
Click to expand...

it's a shit system.

we need enough parties newly formed such that there isn't enough time or money for oligarchs to corrupt them.
 
cwjerome said:
It's both. Our current two-party system is incredibly tribal, incredibly cultish, and exists only to win elections at any cost. It's tearing down essential values that hold things together. The system is has broken down and the people are 'all in' on the dysfunction.
Click to expand...

People think politics is like a football game with winners and losers.
 
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