"CASH ONLY" Chaos - when credit card services went down at the local Wawa/gas station

[Bigdog]

A busy Wawa off the beltway, posted cash only as credit card services went down. It was like the apocalypse. Well, a sign of what it would be like. People could not conduct business or purchase gas unless they had cash.

If the world's satellites were destroyed by a space nuke, so many things would cease to function.

You only have to destroy a few satellites and the debris from those will destroy other satellites. It is known as the cascade effect, and would wipe out all satellites and the debris would make it virtually impossible to use that part of the exosphere for long into the future.

How should the U.S. respond if Putin nukes LEO outerspace and wipes out all satellites?

 

[Bigdog]

Even a chip of paint traveling at 17,000 mph, almost 25x the speed of sound, is like a hypersonic bullet that destroys anything it hits.

 

[Walt]

Geostationary satellite are very distant from the Earth, so have a lot of lag. They also have limited bandwidth. If possible they are replaced with cables as much as possible. Developing countries, along with rural areas, are falling behind replacing them with cables.

Destroying satellites would hurt everyone, but would hurt India, China, Russia, etc. far worse. And of course would hurt Wyoming far more than New York City.

 

[Nomad]

A busy Wawa off the beltway, posted cash only as credit card services went down. It was like the apocalypse. Well, a sign of what it would be like. People could not conduct business or purchase gas unless they had cash.

If the world's satellites were destroyed by a space nuke, so many things would cease to function.

You only have to destroy a few satellites and the debris from those will destroy other satellites. It is known as the cascade effect, and would wipe out all satellites and the debris would make it virtually impossible to use that part of the exosphere for long into the future.

How should the U.S. respond if Putin nukes LEO outerspace and wipes out all satellites?

Even a chip of paint traveling at 17,000 mph, almost 25x the speed of sound, is like a hypersonic bullet that destroys anything it hits.

Why would he do something that would also destroy his own satellites along with his ability to place new ones into orbit?

He'd be setting his own population back 50 years too.

Moron.

 

[Lionfish]

Smart people keep a lot of ammo on hand. There was a time in 2016 when a box of 22 ammo would trade for a gallon of gasoline.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

A busy Wawa off the beltway, posted cash only as credit card services went down. It was like the apocalypse. Well, a sign of what it would be like. People could not conduct business or purchase gas unless they had cash.

If the world's satellites were destroyed by a space nuke, so many things would cease to function.

You only have to destroy a few satellites and the debris from those will destroy other satellites. It is known as the cascade effect, and would wipe out all satellites and the debris would make it virtually impossible to use that part of the exosphere for long into the future.

How should the U.S. respond if Putin nukes LEO outerspace and wipes out all satellites?

The Kessler effect (Kessler syndrome) is what you are talking about and it won't occur as quickly as you think or as depicted in the movies. When a satellite is destroyed, the debris goes into its own orbit. For the debris to hit something else it has to be orbiting at the same height and in a different direction for it to damage another satellite.

 

[moon]

A busy Wawa off the beltway, posted cash only as credit card services went down. It was like the apocalypse. Well, a sign of what it would be like. People could not conduct business or purchase gas unless they had cash.

If the world's satellites were destroyed by a space nuke, so many things would cease to function.

You only have to destroy a few satellites and the debris from those will destroy other satellites. It is known as the cascade effect, and would wipe out all satellites and the debris would make it virtually impossible to use that part of the exosphere for long into the future.

How should the U.S. respond if Putin nukes LEO outerspace and wipes out all satellites?

Respond by minting fresh dollar bills with Zelensky on them.

 

[zymurgy]

Geostationary satellite are very distant from the Earth, so have a lot of lag. They also have limited bandwidth. If possible they are replaced with cables as much as possible. Developing countries, along with rural areas, are falling behind replacing them with cables.

Destroying satellites would hurt everyone, but would hurt India, China, Russia, etc. far worse. And of course would hurt Wyoming far more than New York City.

you are a fool.

the larger the population density, the more fucked you would be


I'll take Wyoming and people that still know how to be self reliant any day

 

[Bigdog]

you are a fool.

the larger the population density, the more fucked you would be


I'll take Wyoming and people that still know how to be self reliant any day

Yep, the farther "off grid" you are, the less affected you will be.

 

[Bigdog]

The Kessler effect (Kessler syndrome) is what you are talking about and it won't occur as quickly as you think or as depicted in the movies. When a satellite is destroyed, the debris goes into its own orbit. For the debris to hit something else it has to be orbiting at the same height and in a different direction for it to damage another satellite.

What movie depicted the wiping out of all satellites?

When things are hit, smashed pieces move in all different directions, not just one. A nuke at the right height could take out a lot of satellites to start the cascade.

"With increased activity in space, debris is a growing threat to Low Earth Orbit (LEO), the most accessible area of space. There may be as many as 170 million pieces of debris in orbit, with the vast majority too small to track due to limits in current technology, but no less dangerous. Of the 55,000 pieces of debris that we can track, more than 27,000 objects, like spent rocket boosters, active satellites, and dead satellites, are monitored by the Department of Defense’s global Space Surveillance Network (SSN).

Due to the speed at which objects move in LEO (around 17,000 mph), the impact of even a small object, like a ping pong ball, can cause significant damage or completely shatter existing infrastructure"

 

[Bigdog]

Why would he do something that would also destroy his own satellites along with his ability to place new ones into orbit?

He'd be setting his own population back 50 years too.

Moron.

You are speculating without providing any evidence. This is typical white lib behavior. In general, the less advanced a country is, the less its people will be affected.

 

[Kafka]

A busy Wawa off the beltway, posted cash only as credit card services went down. It was like the apocalypse. Well, a sign of what it would be like. People could not conduct business or purchase gas unless they had cash.

If the world's satellites were destroyed by a space nuke, so many things would cease to function.

You only have to destroy a few satellites and the debris from those will destroy other satellites. It is known as the cascade effect, and would wipe out all satellites and the debris would make it virtually impossible to use that part of the exosphere for long into the future.

How should the U.S. respond if Putin nukes LEO outerspace and wipes out all satellites?

Oh the fun doesn't stop there. EMP (electromagnetic pulses) like those associated with nuclear detonation can also take out huge swaths of our ground-based electronics. So basically we sit on the razor's edge with regards to pretty much all of our civilization. A few years back I found a great novel called "One Second After" that leveraged EMP weapons to develop a post-apocalyptic storyline.

Just the other day I was out doing my running and took something to return at the UPS store. Their computers were down. They could o literally NOTHING. Not a thing by hand....nothing.

All this great technology and interconnectedness and we really are just one big glitch away from the Dark Ages again.

Don't get me started on the "Digital Dark Age" concept that was going around a few years about with regards to how we've moved almost all of our technical writings to digital format which could easily be lost in the mists of time and become unrecoverable

 

[moon]

What movie depicted the wiping out of all satellites?

When things are hit, smashed pieces move in all different directions, not just one. A nuke at the right height could take out a lot of satellites to start the cascade.

"With increased activity in space, debris is a growing threat to Low Earth Orbit (LEO), the most accessible area of space. There may be as many as 170 million pieces of debris in orbit, with the vast majority too small to track due to limits in current technology, but no less dangerous. Of the 55,000 pieces of debris that we can track, more than 27,000 objects, like spent rocket boosters, active satellites, and dead satellites, are monitored by the Department of Defense’s global Space Surveillance Network (SSN).

Due to the speed at which objects move in LEO (around 17,000 mph), the impact of even a small object, like a ping pong ball, can cause significant damage or completely shatter existing infrastructure"

Yes, it's about time you posted something hopeful.

Vive la noble sauvage ! Kill the robots !!

 

[Kafka]

Yep, the farther "off grid" you are, the less affected you will be.

But there's an upfront cost to that approach. In reality we are all interconnected as a society. That's about the only way this all works. The move to go "off grid" sounds good but in some ways it limits your connection to the rest of the community in the present for the purposes of forestalling some bad events that may or may not occur.

I think there could be some better application of "distributed systems" (like solar panels for homes etc.) but generally we are all kind of in the same lifeboat.

 

[Bigdog]

Smart people keep a lot of ammo on hand. There was a time in 2016 when a box of 22 ammo would trade for a gallon of gasoline.

The 22lr is totally underrated, IMO. It's inexpensive, and lightweight if you need to bugout.

We had a bad ammo shortage from 2020-2023, and future supplies are unstable.

 

[Bigdog]

But there's an upfront cost to that approach. In reality we are all interconnected as a society. That's about the only way this all works. The move to go "off grid" sounds good but in some ways it limits your connection to the rest of the community in the present for the purposes of forestalling some bad events that may or may not occur.

I think there could be some better application of "distributed systems" (like solar panels for homes etc.) but generally we are all kind of in the same lifeboat.

I agree. But there are different levels of Off Grid. In this case, it's more about being farther away from population centers.

Having a few solar panels and battery for emergency use is a good idea.
You just need enough for survival, ... not to maintain current lifestyle needs which is quite an expensive investment. A little preparedness can go a long way.

I'm not saying move away. I'm just saying it's an advantage if you already are in a rural area.

 

[Bigdog]

Yes, it's about time you posted something hopeful.

Vive la noble sauvage ! Kill the robots !!

As opposed to AOC telling all the children they are going to die in 12 years?

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

What movie depicted the wiping out of all satellites?

When things are hit, smashed pieces move in all different directions, not just one. A nuke at the right height could take out a lot of satellites to start the cascade.

"With increased activity in space, debris is a growing threat to Low Earth Orbit (LEO), the most accessible area of space. There may be as many as 170 million pieces of debris in orbit, with the vast majority too small to track due to limits in current technology, but no less dangerous. Of the 55,000 pieces of debris that we can track, more than 27,000 objects, like spent rocket boosters, active satellites, and dead satellites, are monitored by the Department of Defense’s global Space Surveillance Network (SSN).

Due to the speed at which objects move in LEO (around 17,000 mph), the impact of even a small object, like a ping pong ball, can cause significant damage or completely shatter existing infrastructure"

I'm guessing you didn't see Gravity which starts with a supposed Kessler syndrome event.

When things are hit the pieces move in all directions but are subject to gravity which means they go into orbit based on their new speed and direction. They can't continue to accelerate or decelerate after the initial impact. If their speed increases they move to a higher orbit or leave earth's gravity. If their speed decreases they move to a lower orbit or enter the atmosphere. Yes, there are more threats but the likelihood of a piece of debris finding the right orbit and direction to immediately hit another satellite is infinitesimal. The bigger threat is they enter an orbit that over the course of time will intersect with another satellite. That could take 2 orbits or 2,000,000 orbits before a collision can occur. You are imagining the destruction of a satellite is similar to an explosion on earth. The results are quite different.

If you explode a satellite within 100 feet of another satellite, your chances of damaging the second one are pretty good. If you explode a satellite within 10 miles of another satellite, you would have to get real lucky to do damage to the second satellite with the initial explosion.

Just as an example, let's say StarLink has 500 satellites all having the exact same orbit but about 200 miles between them. If you explode one of the satellites. The other satellites do not go through a debris field hanging in space waiting for them. Any debris that has not moved to a higher or lower orbit has continued in orbit so the other satellites can't catch up to the debris. The only way you could destroy one of them from that first debris field is if an item leaves at the exact same speed and at a slightly different angle. That debris would have to make many orbits before it might finally intersect the orbit of one of the other satellites. The Kessler effect would likely take years to knock out a lot of satellites. What it means is that there isn't an orbit that could be safe from impacts for the years we normally expect satellites to last.

 

[Bigdog]

I'm guessing you didn't see Gravity which starts with a supposed Kessler syndrome event.

When things are hit the pieces move in all directions but are subject to gravity which means they go into orbit based on their new speed and direction. They can't continue to accelerate or decelerate after the initial impact. If their speed increases they move to a higher orbit or leave earth's gravity. If their speed decreases they move to a lower orbit or enter the atmosphere. Yes, there are more threats but the likelihood of a piece of debris finding the right orbit and direction to immediately hit another satellite is infinitesimal. The bigger threat is they enter an orbit that over the course of time will intersect with another satellite. That could take 2 orbits or 2,000,000 orbits before a collision can occur. You are imagining the destruction of a satellite is similar to an explosion on earth. The results are quite different.

If you explode a satellite within 100 feet of another satellite, your chances of damaging the second one are pretty good. If you explode a satellite within 10 miles of another satellite, you would have to get real lucky to do damage to the second satellite with the initial explosion.

Just as an example, let's say StarLink has 500 satellites all having the exact same orbit but about 200 miles between them. If you explode one of the satellites. The other satellites do not go through a debris field hanging in space waiting for them. Any debris that has not moved to a higher or lower orbit has continued in orbit so the other satellites can't catch up to the debris. The only way you could destroy one of them from that first debris field is if an item leaves at the exact same speed and at a slightly different angle. That debris would have to make many orbits before it might finally intersect the orbit of one of the other satellites. The Kessler effect would likely take years to knock out a lot of satellites. What it means is that there isn't an orbit that could be safe from impacts for the years we normally expect satellites to last.

On average, a satellite completes an orbit every 90 minutes.

Not only would a nuke take out many satellites at once, but it would also create an EMP field that would disrupt satellite navigation and orbits. Give it a payload of BB's and you would increase the devastation.

The movie Gravity was NOT about the Kessler effect. I don't know of any movie that is.

 

[Into the Night]

A busy Wawa off the beltway, posted cash only as credit card services went down. It was like the apocalypse. Well, a sign of what it would be like. People could not conduct business or purchase gas unless they had cash.

Meh. Card services go down from time to time. Carry cash.

If the world's satellites were destroyed by a space nuke, so many things would cease to function.

Credit cards don't require satellites to function.

You only have to destroy a few satellites and the debris from those will destroy other satellites. It is known as the cascade effect, and would wipe out all satellites and the debris would make it virtually impossible to use that part of the exosphere for long into the future.

Nope. Debris from a destroyed satellite would just keep orbiting the same orbit that the satellite did. Satellites don't fly in the exosphere.
They are assigned different altitudes depending on the nature of their mission.

How should the U.S. respond if Putin nukes LEO outerspace and wipes out all satellites?

Putin isn't stupid enough to start a nuclear war with the United States.