"CASH ONLY" Chaos - when credit card services went down at the local Wawa/gas station

[Walt]

more word games?

really?

It is the same people doing the same jobs, so yes the whole Space Force thing is word games. Words can be important, because they denote how we see and organize the world, so word games can be important.

Requiring people to shift back and forth between services is often a mistake, especially when done for no good reason.

 

[Into the Night]

No, it doesn't. It provides support to land and sea operations.

Which is what I said.

It doesn't do them.

I never said it did.

For all intents, the Air Force is nothing but a combination of flying artillery and a transport service.

Pretty much sums it up.

 

[Into the Night]

I do like the Canadian idea of combining all the military forces into one,

They don't.

 

[Into the Night]

It is the same people doing the same jobs, so yes the whole Space Force thing is word games. Words can be important, because they denote how we see and organize the world, so word games can be important.

Requiring people to shift back and forth between services is often a mistake, especially when done for no good reason.

Word games is a fallacy, Wally.
It is a series of redefinition fallacies and buzzword fallacies.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

You are making a strong argument for less services, not more services. Somewhere along the line you forgot that you were trying to argue for more services, with the Space Force being added.

Yes, I am. The Air Force should be part of the Army. A Space Force fights extra-planetary operations. They have a distinct battlefield. You can occupy a location in space continuously (in theory if not reality) using a space station. You can have long-term fleet operations. Thus, they are the equivalent of a navy or army in space.

The atmosphere around a planet cannot be so occupied by some reasonable means. You hold ground or you control bodies of water. You can do either on a sustained basis. All air forces--whoever controls them--do is add a third dimension to existing warfare.

See Chapter 17

https://archive.org/stream/in.ernet.dli.2015.6342/2015.6342.Makers-Of-Modern-Strategy_djvu.txt

Or, see chapter 11 Non strategies

Strategy : the logic of war and peace : Luttwak, Edward : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

xii, 283 p. ; 25 cm

archive.org

Douhet, Mitchell, and Seversky are picked apart with ease.

Having almost all the military services in the same department means they are better at working together. Having joint military units also helps things. You will always have some division, so it is not that bad.

You need a separate Army and Navy. The navy needs marines and an air force, while the army needs an air force. You can have a separate space force if you want.

I do like the Canadian idea of combining all the military forces into one, but I also see that is disruptive. I would like to see it work with a couple of major militaries before applying it to ours.

That works with a small military, but a large one needs to be divided between land and sea warfare to make sure each is focused on their aspect of warfare.

 

[Walt]

Yes, I am. The Air Force should be part of the Army. A Space Force fights extra-planetary operations. They have a distinct battlefield. You can occupy a location in space continuously (in theory if not reality) using a space station. You can have long-term fleet operations. Thus, they are the equivalent of a navy or army in space.

The atmosphere around a planet cannot be so occupied by some reasonable means. You hold ground or you control bodies of water. You can do either on a sustained basis. All air forces--whoever controls them--do is add a third dimension to existing warfare.

See Chapter 17

https://archive.org/stream/in.ernet.dli.2015.6342/2015.6342.Makers-Of-Modern-Strategy_djvu.txt

Or, see chapter 11 Non strategies

Strategy : the logic of war and peace : Luttwak, Edward : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

xii, 283 p. ; 25 cm

archive.org

Douhet, Mitchell, and Seversky are picked apart with ease.


You need a separate Army and Navy. The navy needs marines and an air force, while the army needs an air force. You can have a separate space force if you want.


That works with a small military, but a large one needs to be divided between land and sea warfare to make sure each is focused on their aspect of warfare.

So you want the Air Force to be part of the Army, but the Space Force to be independent? You understand that most of what the Space Force does actually translates to the ground forces?

This feels silly to me, so I am moving on.

 

[Walt]

They don't.

This seems even more silly to me, so I am moving on.

 

[CIA TOTALITARIANISM]

It is the same people doing the same jobs, so yes the whole Space Force thing is word games. Words can be important, because they denote how we see and organize the world, so word games can be important.

Requiring people to shift back and forth between services is often a mistake, especially when done for no good reason.

word games are deceptive.

if you're trying for clarity in good faith, you would also eschew word games.

but you're an internationalist fascist population reduction zealot piece of evil anti-human filth.

 

[Into the Night]

This seems even more silly to me, so I am moving on.

Then why did you bring it up, Wally?

 

[Bigdog]

The Air Force split from the Army long before I was born. It made sense, because people joined the Air Force who had no intention of ever spending any of the career in the Army. People join the Marines who have no wish to join the Navy.

But sailors who serve on a Navy cruiser may serve later on an aircraft carrier. And airmen who serve with fighter planes may later serve with bombers. Dividing those make no sense.

The question is will recruits think they can make a 20 to 40 year career solely in the Space Force. The answer is mostly no.

There is just so much wrong in this post. You are just making shit up.

 

[Bigdog]

You seem to be using it to mean people who use satellites instead of cables, so people who would be hardest hit.

Yawn. No, I already told you what I mean.

 

[Bigdog]

This is the ironic thing.

Solar panels are a modern product. Someone has to make them, sell them, and install them. If the person using solar panels wants power at night, without hooking up to the power lines, they will need modern batteries to be mined, processed, constructed, and installed (that much battery ballasting is HEAVY) using special equipment.

That's 'off grid'??

Now about Wyoming:

This State has a lot of open area. It's major industries are corn, coal, and railroad. There are couple of large indian reservations in it, and a national park bringing several thousand visitors each year. It has all the modern conveniences of internet, cable, microwave relay, electric power to anyone that wants it, etc.

No man is an island.

Yes, Off Grid can mean Off the power grid, too.

I know Wyoming is not in the Stone Age, lol.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

There is a reason we still use satellites for communication, and it is because fiber is not everywhere.

Satellites are not a reason for a space force.

 

[Bigdog]

What always amazes me is the people who claim they put the most thought into survivalism, have almost always put the least amount of thought into it.

In countries that have collapsed recently, famine only comes to the countryside. When things are bad, people who are experiencing it move to the cities. There are reasons for this.

When you think of the reasons, the worst thing you can be is a non-productive rural dweller. Stone is clearly not a farmer, so he gets the worst of both worlds.

Real farmers realize that the industrial inputs in modern farming are extremely important. That even small economic downturns can be devastating to them. Major crop failures means they must be heavily bailed out.

Give me two examples of countries that have collapsed recently where people are running to the cities.

If you live in a rural area it is easier to hunt, fish and grow your own food. You have totally missed the point again.

 

[Walt]

There is just so much wrong in this post. You are just making shit up.

Usually people join one service, planning on staying in that service. There is one major exception, active duty Marines will often switch to the Army National Guard, or the Army reserves. It is usually a major headache to switch services.

The people being moved into the Space Force will usually spend decades in the military. It looks like they will have to transfer back and forth between either the Air Force or the Navy, and the Space Force. Each move requires a huge amount of paperwork, and complex approvals with their pensions and benefits. Sometimes the paperwork is messed up, and people lose benefits.

This is all an unnecessary complexity with no real benefit.

 

[Walt]

Satellites are not a reason for a space force.

Well, that has nothing to do with the conversation, and is mostly wrong.

The most important part of space that is under the Space Force area is the area just outside the atmosphere, where the satellites are. No military force really cares about the rest of space.

 

[Walt]

Give me two examples of countries that have collapsed recently where people are running to the cities.

Bosnia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Ethiopia, I could go on and on.

 

[Into the Night]

Yes, Off Grid can mean Off the power grid, too.

I know Wyoming is not in the Stone Age, lol.

Apparently some Democrats think Wyoming is living in the Stone age.

Yes. 'Off Grid' can certainly refer to not being attached to the power lines. Anyone driving a car is temporarily Off Grid.

Living off the power grid is desirable for some. They generate their own power by some means, usually. Either solar cells, generators, building their own little hydroelectric power or wind power plant, etc.

They still are connected to that technology network though.

 

[Into the Night]

Give me two examples of countries that have collapsed recently where people are running to the cities.

You are quite right. No city can house or feed or clothe or survive long without continuous supplies from outside.

If you live in a rural area it is easier to hunt, fish and grow your own food. You have totally missed the point again.

That is the 'outside'. Ingrates in the cities don't appreciate just how much they depend on people in the country that provide the food they eat, the power they use, the water they drink and bath with, the cloth the use to clothe themselves with, or the oil and gasoline they use. They even despise the very truckers that bring them those supplies on a daily basis.

Without those continuous supplies, cities will crack up in a very short time into much worse chaos then they already are.

 

[Into the Night]

Usually people join one service, planning on staying in that service. There is one major exception, active duty Marines will often switch to the Army National Guard, or the Army reserves. It is usually a major headache to switch services.

The people being moved into the Space Force will usually spend decades in the military. It looks like they will have to transfer back and forth between either the Air Force or the Navy, and the Space Force. Each move requires a huge amount of paperwork, and complex approvals with their pensions and benefits. Sometimes the paperwork is messed up, and people lose benefits.

This is all an unnecessary complexity with no real benefit.

Stop making shit up, Wally.