Christofacists at it again

IHateGovernment said:
Well it's not prone!

I could be convinced to come around to Tiana's idea here. I have no general use for organized religion in the first place. I do not even see how anyone can argue that throughout history, it has done more harm than good.

This is a dangerous thing though. It amounts to the government saying what is acceptable activity. This is similar to why I am against public funding of art. Do people want their tax dollars to go toward a work like pisschrist? But then if the government says such things can't get tax dollars they are saying what is and isn't legitimate art. Just like government saying what is acceptable behavior.

If I had my druthers though there would be no such thing as tax emempt status.
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They already do! You have to apply for Tax Exempt status and the IRS decides if what you do qualifies.

Not to mention if you start campaigning for a person or party, its stripped away too.
 
Brent said:
According to the Bible, there are two camps of people on the earth: those who love the Lord, and those who hate the Lord. Speaking as a person who once hated the Lord, I do not see any middle ground. Not loving God = hating God.
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Damn! God's a Bush? That explains so much . . . .

Given that choice -- which I don't think anyone is -- and if God is as you conceive -- which I don't believe for a moment -- then I'd like my gate pass into the "hate God" camp now, please.
 
Brent's theory on athiests who want to limit tax cuts....
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Blatant misrepresentation of the truth.

A tax-exempt status for non-profit organizations is not a "tax cut."
 
Cypress said:
I hear ya.

I'm totally open minded about examining the tax exempt status of non-profits and churches that engage in discrimination.

I was just being a technocrat, and pointing out the current limitations of federal employment discrimination laws. Silly me, I get obssessed with process, and not principle sometimes. Its the inner technocrat in me. I ;)

Now, tax exemption laws are another matter. I'm an ignorant boob on those laws.
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Me too.
 
What if you like God but you don't love him. I don't think that means you hate him.

What if you like God like you like a sunny day. I don't think this is hateful in nature.
 
IHateGovernment said:
According to the Bible, there are two camps of people on the earth: those who love the Lord, and those who hate the Lord. Speaking as a person who once hated the Lord, I do not see any middle ground. Not loving God = hating God.

That is a false dichotomy. What about people who have no concept of the lord. An ignorant child hates God because he doesn't love him.
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I am speaking in regards to those who've been exposed to the truth and make their choice accordingly. I would argue that children, by their very nature, love the Lord. In Matthew 18:3, Jesus said: And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
 
IHateGovernment said:
Well it's not prone!

I could be convinced to come around to Tiana's idea here. I have no general use for organized religion in the first place. I do not even see how anyone can argue that throughout history, it has done more harm than good.

This is a dangerous thing though. It amounts to the government saying what is acceptable activity. This is similar to why I am against public funding of art. Do people want their tax dollars to go toward a work like pisschrist? But then if the government says such things can't get tax dollars they are saying what is and isn't legitimate art. Just like government saying what is acceptable behavior.

If I had my druthers though there would be no such thing as tax emempt status.
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Well, you make an interesting point, but I wonder, when will we have reached the point that any kind of discrimination is unacceptable, and that saying so, is ok? And I think the government already says that discrimination is not ok IHG. Look at what you have to do if you want a federal contract...you have to prove that you do not discriminate, that you have minorities and women and so on working for you, and that they are promoted. So if you have to do that already, in order to gain a government contract, would it set some precident or change things so drastically to say you have to do the same to gain tax exempt status?
 
Darla that depends on if you view tax exempt status as a negative or positive act. Obviously a government contract is a positive act as the government is actively seeking to give you something you don't have.

Tax exempt status can be argued as the government simply failing to do something in this case tax you.

Also it is relevant that as far as giving preference to companies that hire women and minorities this is done to mitigiate the harm the government directly caused these groups by not protecting their rights in the past and thus it is responsible for todays inequality.

This element doesn't exist with churches in the same fashion.
 
LadyT said:
Yes it is.
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Your intent, LadyT, is intellectually dishonest. You want people to get the impression that I believe anyone who opposes general tax cuts are minions of Satan. This isn't true. We're talking about non-profit organizations. If your intent is NOT to lie, then I suggest you change your signature to tell the whole truth.

Otherwise you're a scumbag. Your choice.

- Brent
 
IHateGovernment said:
Darla that depends on if you view tax exempt status as a negative or positive act. Obviously a government contract is a positive act as the government is actively seeking to give you something you don't have.

Tax exempt status can be argued as the government simply failing to do something in this case tax you.

Also it is relevant that as far as giving preference to companies that hire women and minorities this is done to mitigiate the harm the government directly caused these groups by not protecting their rights in the past and thus it is responsible for todays inequality.

This element doesn't exist with churches in the same fashion.
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I think that's not the winning argument though. I think the precident is there and the world hasn't ended, and the commies haven't taken over and murdered all the women and raped all the men, so a case could defintely be made.
 
Brent said:
Your intent, LadyT, is intellectually dishonest. You want people to get the impression that I believe anyone who opposes general tax cuts are minions of Satan. This isn't true. We're talking about non-profit organizations. If your intent is NOT to lie, then I suggest you change your signature to tell the whole truth.

Otherwise you're a scumbag. Your choice.

- Brent
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I for one, don't give a rat's fart in a windstorm about anything you say someone else is, so before you go around looking like you're speaking for what anyone outside of your shriveled and deluded little mind might believe, let's get that clear.

I would kick your ass from one room to the next if you ever pulled any of your manly man crap on me, and you my boy, better choose wisely when you choose a girl, because a lot of us are much stronger than we look. And you, are one little boy who needs an ass kicking.
 
I think that's not the winning argument though. I think the precident is there and the world hasn't ended, and the commies haven't taken over and murdered all the women and raped all the men, so a case could defintely be made.

I think the government has to have a strong case for when it tries to control behavior through social engineering. I don't think it is sufficient in this case. It is a very dangerous precedent to have government try to prescribe certain behaviors.

I think our current administration is proof enough of this. I tend to favor informal social controls instead.
 
That is because you confuse charity with tithing, which are utterly separate things. Some of the tithes will reach the charity. Funds donated directly to church charities almost entirely make it to the intended recipients. When was the last time you saw a church-run charity advertising on TV?
 
Darla,

Are you so deluded that you believe I actually CARE what you think of me? You, feminazi, make me laugh. I do not care what you think for a moment. You cannot even present a real argument; you prefer to hate-smear and lie about your opposition.
 
Brent said:
Darla,

Are you so deluded that you believe I actually CARE what you think of me? You, feminazi, make me laugh. I do not care what you think for a moment. You cannot even present a real argument; you prefer to hate-smear and lie about your opposition.
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Note the irony in Brent using nazi as an insult.
 
Darla said:
Well, the thing is, as for small businesses, they're not on a bully pulpit, you know? I mean, they don't have mass, and pretty creepy if you ask me, influence over the mind of others. I mean, we are talking about Cypress, millions of people who will literally leave their churches and go vote for whom they're told to vote for. I don't mean people like Care or Immie, but they're out there, and they have a lot of power in this country as it is. Should they also have tax exempt status as they work to make my life miserable? I think that can be argued.
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Please think about this for second....

Who out of those voting parishioners, have tax free status? ANSWER: no one but the Priiest or Pastor.

Every single one of those people that we differ with pay every dime in taxes that they owe to the us government, (unless they are cheating). None of these people get any kind of special tax break because they are a member of a Church and the Church is tax exempt.

Why on earth WOULD YOU want to punish these people for just being FREE, FREE to vote as they please...? they pay what you pay in taxes? Even if this means that they vote for an idiot? It's their vote!

The NRA supported President Bush, another non profit membership organization...should you take their non profit staus away from them too? And I don't know if you know any members to the NRA but holy moly, they are just as religious about their cause as the most right wing nutszoid out there....lol, imho!

By pursuing silly things like this over EVERYTHING ELSE THAT IS GOING ON OUT THERE, seems nothing less than vindictive towards a group of people, just because they are dumb or because they differ with YOU or with Tiana?

And I just can't take part in this....and I don't even go to church and haven't in years, (ok...confession time....but i feel like i should be going... :( ) Regardless!

The only people that will get hurt out of not allowing Churches to be tax exempt if they don't allow women Priests are the poor, the sick, the needy and the stranger....

and I could never live with myself, if I would let something like that happen...especially when our own government is not there, IN MANY OF THESE CASES to help the needy, those in the donut hole.... and I choose to spend my charity where it is BEST SPENT and it is a PROVEN FACT that nearly every cent on the dollar donated to something like the Catholic or Jewish Charities, goes directly to the needy themselves....unlike many secular charities where they pay their ceo's, ceo salaries....

In addition to this, where does the constitution come in to this....doesn't it mean anything when it comes to this....?

And on top of this, I don't want the government thru some convoluted tax policy, controlling the DOCTRINE of any established church....you are playing with fire in my opinion, with the constitution itself on several grounds imho.

There are bigger fish to fry imho, than to amend our constitution so that you all can have control over these people and their PRIVATE VOTE is beyond reasoning to me...unless I am seeing it wrong?

and all because a woman that was a volunteer sunday school teacher was supposedly dismissed of her voluntary job because this Church that she was a voluntary member of, decided to modify their church doctrine.....

cut me a break....

to want the government to change all laws because of this discriminatory thing that doesn't even involve a paid job with is just plain silly...

I don't mean to offend anyone, really, I don't....but jesus, mary and joseph...why so much hatred towards these people? so much so, that they are willing to harm the very people (the needy and the sick and the homeless) that they CLAIM moral ownage to...and when it comes to others helping them...they want to eliminate it? all because they make dumb votes? and you don't even punish these people that made the dumb vote, you punish the needy by making less money avail to the charity to use...?

AND WHY if we live in a free country would YOU EVEN BE TRYING to curb a fellow citizen from thinking freely and being free...even if they differ with you?

Big government is BAD when you manipulate and use it for these kind of issues imho.

care
 
I would kick your ass from one room to the next if you ever pulled any of your manly man crap on me, and you my boy, better choose wisely when you choose a girl, because a lot of us are much stronger than we look. And you, are one little boy who needs an ass kicking.

That's hot.:thup:
 
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