CIA chief: Waterboarding aided bin Laden raid

[Airstrip One]

What ever gets you through the night! It was one piece of information, the rest was done with years of intelligence and carefully dogging the carriers! but if you want to believe torture works and are that kind of human, like those in the Taliban, then have it, just keep your inhuman activity out of my country! and think what it will be like for the next US soldier caught and tortured. Remember, we can no longer take the high ground in this matter.

I disagree with the bolded part. It will actually not matter at all, since the terrorists do not hold back on their depravity under any circumstances. I have always viewed this as a weak argument against torture. Its best to simply identify what our principles and standards are for capturing and holding enemy combatants, and leave it at that.

 

[DamnYankee]

You went to the dentist of your own free will. He didn't haul you in off the street and pull a tooth without your consent.

Consent has nothing to do with the definition of the word.

 

[Onceler]

As is your way, when you lose an argument you spout nonsense then attempt to ridicule your opponent.

I haven't lost, at all. And I'm not "attempting" ridicule; your arguments - from the dictionary definition to the trip to the dentist - are inherently ridiculous. You would be laughed out of any serious debate.

As I said before, you're in way over your head....

 

[DamnYankee]

I haven't lost, at all. And I'm not "attempting" ridicule; your arguments - from the dictionary definition to the trip to the dentist - are inherently ridiculous. You would be laughed out of any serious debate.

As I said before, you're in way over your head....

If you haven't lost, then why are you attempting ridicule? You should be presenting facts and making direct responses. *shrug*

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

And your basis for saying that is . . . exactly nothing. I believe this falls into the unknowable unknown in Rumsfeld's rubric. We do know that we gained much of the valuable information that led to OBL without resorting to torture and instead employing standard investigatory methods (at least according to (many versions of) the official account).

My basis for saying this is COMMON SENSE... something you apparently don't realize exists. I believe this falls into the category of, if you are really stupid, you can make yourself believe anything! We know for a fact, the information obtained from KSM led us to the courier who led us to OBL, and we know for a fact, KSM was one of three people waterboarded. We also know for a fact, the information was corroborated by one of the other two people we waterboarded. Whether it came during the actual waterboarding event, is beside the point... I suspect, when you have water shooting up your nose, you're probably not saying a whole lot.... just a guess... I've never been waterboarded. But here we have three people who were the only known waterboarding "victims" and two of them led us directly to the courier who led us to OBL. Unless you want to believe Jughead and Oncell's "theory" that the terrorists were so appreciative of Obama's refusal to waterboard them, it made them divulge the information out of the goodness of their hearts? I mean, the convoluted twisting of reality you have to do here, is astonishing.... why do you think this is something difficult to believe or imagine?

 

[Onceler]

Unless you want to believe Jughead and Oncell's "theory" that the terrorists were so appreciative of Obama's refusal to waterboard them, it made them divulge the information out of the goodness of their hearts?

Interesting; when did I say that?

 

[Bonestorm]

My basis for saying this is COMMON SENSE... something you apparently don't realize exists. I believe this falls into the category of, if you are really stupid, you can make yourself believe anything! We know for a fact, the information obtained from KSM led us to the courier who led us to OBL

No, we don't know that for a fact. Being most generous to your position, we know that we learned of the existence of a courier from KSM. We learned who the courier was and found him based on non-torture interrogation methods.

and we know for a fact, KSM was one of three people waterboarded.

Yes, but we don't know whether the information was provided by KSM as a result of waterboarding.

We also know for a fact, the information was corroborated by one of the other two people we waterboarded.

I don't know whether that is true or, if it is true, whether the information was revealed as a result of waterboarding.

Whether it came during the actual waterboarding event, is beside the point... I suspect, when you have water shooting up your nose, you're probably not saying a whole lot.... just a guess... I've never been waterboarded.

What? That's kind of the only point, isn't it?

But here we have three people who were the only known waterboarding "victims" and two of them led us directly to the courier who led us to OBL.

No, we don't know that.

Unless you want to believe Jughead and Oncell's "theory" that the terrorists were so appreciative of Obama's refusal to waterboard them, it made them divulge the information out of the goodness of their hearts?

So you're basically saying that before 2002 we had no effective interrogation methods? That's fucking stupid.

I mean, the convoluted twisting of reality you have to do here, is astonishing.... why do you think this is something difficult to believe or imagine?

I'm not really twisting reality. The reality is that we tortured people and those people gave us information, some good and some bad. We can never know whether, in the absence of torturing them, we would have gotten the same information, less information or more information. We cannot travel back in time.

 

[Phantasmal]

I disagree with the bolded part. It will actually not matter at all, since the terrorists do not hold back on their depravity under any circumstances. I have always viewed this as a weak argument against torture. Its best to simply identify what our principles and standards are for capturing and holding enemy combatants, and leave it at that.

Weak argument or not, you can not do to others what you don't want done to yours...that is our principle in this matter. You know the Golden Rule of what is suppose to be a Christian nation...do unto others and all that good rot!

 

[Canceled2]

Weak argument or not, you can not do to others what you don't want done to yours...that is our principle in this matter. You know the Golden Rule of what is suppose to be a Christian nation...do unto others and all that good rot!

That's right toad brain, the better thing we can all agree on is never to pour a little water in their nose; instead we just fly in stealth like and the blow their fucking brains out then dump their terrorist asses in the sea for the fishies!

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

I understand that Democratards will never except that waterboarding is not torture but what happened to all the supposed libertarians that went on and on claiming that it was torture? Where are they now?

Is Dumb Yankee ready to explain how Osama's location was supposedly obtained through waterboarding in 2003, but wasn't wasn't acted upon until 2011?

"If we had some kind of smoking gun intelligence from waterboarding in 2003, we would have taken out Osama bin Laden in 2003," an NSC spokesman said. "It took years of collection and analysis from many different sources to develop the case that enabled us to identify the compound."​

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http://www.freep.com/article/201105...torture?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|s


Or are we just supposed to "except" Dumb Yankee's word for it?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Weak argument or not, you can not do to others what you don't want done to yours...that is our principle in this matter. You know the Golden Rule of what is suppose to be a Christian nation...do unto others and all that good rot!

Which was his point. We should identify our principles and standards and leave it at that. It should not be based on what 'others' will do.

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

I had a bad tooth pulled by a dentist one time and cause a lot of pain and agony. Did he torture me? Of course not. The definition in this context is: "2: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure ". Since waterboarding does not cause pain as from burning, crushing, or wounding, it is not torture.

Does Dumb Yankee understand the use of "as from" in the definition above?

Using Damn Stankee reasoning, holding someone's head under water isn't torture, because it doesn't "cause pain as from burning, crushing, or wounding".

Is the point of waterboarding "to coerce"?